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If you had difficulty listening to S6E15: Echoes of Internment: Filmmaker Claudia Katayanagi on History, Justice, and Resistance - the sound has been repaired. Try it again. Don't miss it!
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Join me as I sit down with Claudia Katayanagi, an award-winning documentary filmmaker whose work brings hidden histories to light. As a fourth-generation Japanese American, Claudia's personal and professional journey led her to uncover the dark realities of World War II’s "Citizen Isolation Centers," a topic explored in her powerful documentary A Bitter Legacy.
In our conversation, we dive deep into the intersection of past and present injustices, examining how the forced internment of Japanese Americans echoes in today’s mass deportation threats, immigrant detentions, and violations of civil rights. We discuss the Enemy Aliens Act of 1798, used as a justification during WWII and again today by the current administration. Claudia’s work, including her latest film, Exile - Community in Conflict, confronts these historical parallels head-on. She shares her firsthand experiences documenting protests at detention centers across the country, from Texas to California, and the urgent need for truth-telling in the face of rising xenophobia.
We also discuss the power of art and storytelling as acts of resistance—how the men and women imprisoned during WWII used paintings, poetry, and prayer to sustain their spirits, and how those lessons resonate in today’s fights for justice. With history repeating itself in disturbing ways, Claudia’s activism through Tsuru for Solidarity reminds us that silence is not an option.
This episode will challenge you. It will inform you. And it will push you to take action. Tune in, learn the truth, and—most importantly—use your voice. Protest. Organize. Vote. Because the fight for justice never ends. SHOW NOTES
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On today’s Beach Talk, Betsey Newehuyse and I break down the headlines as the President floods the zone with controversy, wielding Executive Orders like a wrecking ball to smash the federal government to pieces. In these gloomy, fear-filled times, we need a break—so we turn to baseball and college hoops. March Madness is here, and my LA Dodgers take on Betsey’s Chicago Cubs in Tokyo, where fans are out in full force for their favorite Japanese superstars.
Meanwhile, I’ve been writing open letters to Senator John Thune, urging him to step up and put the brakes on the President’s anti-democratic agenda. And now, Michael Kruse of Politico has taken notice, quoting my letters in his latest profile: "Does John Thune Have a Red Line When It Comes to Trump?"
But the headlines only get darker—the administration is rounding up immigrants, with ICE Director Tom Homan invoking the 1798 Alien Enemies Act to detain so-called “Venezuelan Terrorists” without due process. They’ve been shipped off to El Salvadorian prisons—unnamed, unidentified, uncharged. And then there’s what I’m calling "The Chainsaw Massacre", a brutal purge of funding and jobs, engineered by Elon Musk himself. We dive into the real, personal stories behind these losses.
Join us for all this and more on Beach Talk—because the news never stops, and neither do we.
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Ever heard the word patrimonialism? Neither had we—until we read Jonathan Rauch’s eye-opening article in The Atlantic: "One Word Describes Trump." In this episode of The Two Kens, Ken Fong and I dive into what this term really means and why it’s the key to understanding the new administration. Patrimonialism, a concept from sociologist Max Weber, describes rulers who claim to be the symbolic “father” of the people—personifying and controlling the state. Sound familiar? We break down the administration’s first 60 days including mass firings, legal overreach, and dismantling of key government services; renaming the Gulf of Mexico and Mount Denali (yes, really); trade wars, territorial ambitions including Canada, Greenland, the Panama Canal, and the chaos strategy at play. We also talk about my letters to Senate Majority Leader John Thune—picked up by Politico and The New Yorker—urging him to take a stand. Plus, we tackle the Democratic Party’s challenge in fighting back against this Republican power grab. Join us for this timely and critical conversation.
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I’m excited to welcome back my friend and political activist, Darcy McKenzie. Over the years, as our friendship has grown, we’ve witnessed and reflected on some major milestone moments in history. Darcy lives near the very street corner where George Floyd lost his life, and her advocacy began on local school boards before expanding into key roles supporting both local and national Democratic candidates. She’s a key player in the DFL (Democratic Farmer-Labor) Party, working to advance affirmative action, outreach, and inclusion at every level of government.
In this episode, we dive into the political landscape, discussing Vice Presidential candidate Tim Walz and the Kamala Harris campaign. Darcy has campaigned for an impressive range of candidates, including Muslim Attorney General Keith Ellison, Representative Ilhan Omar, Jewish Secretary of State Steve Simon, and LGBTQ Representative Angie Craig. She’s also been a strong advocate for women leaders, supporting Senators Amy Klobuchar and Tina Smith, as well as Representatives Betty McCollum and Kelly Morrison. And while she champions diversity, she’s also backed candidates like Governor Tim Walz, a "straight white guy," and now she’s fully supporting Lt. Governor Peggy Flanagan, a Native American leader, in her run for the U.S. Senate.
Together, Darcy and I unpack the weaponization of DEI and CRT, and we share where we find hope and encouragement even in today’s political climate. Let’s get into it.
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In this timely and special episode of The Beached White Male Podcast, host Ken Kemp welcomes back his trusted friend and guest, Betsey Newenhuyse, for a deep dive into the emotional and spiritual challenges of our current political climate. As the nation grapples with division and uncertainty, Ken and Betsey explore how faith, friendship, and personal reflection can serve as vital coping mechanisms.
Their conversation is framed by two compelling pieces of writing: an essay by the celebrated storyteller Garrison Keillor and Katherine Stewart’s powerful new book, Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. Keillor’s reflections on friendship, place, worship, and prayer provide a sense of comfort and nostalgia—reminding us of the grounding forces in our lives that help us weather difficult times. Meanwhile, Stewart’s investigative work exposes the dangerous political forces seeking to manipulate faith for power, offering a sobering counterpoint to the more personal and spiritual aspects of the discussion.
Ken and Betsey reflect on the tension between these two perspectives—the solace found in spiritual traditions versus the urgent need to confront political realities that threaten democratic values. Through honest conversation, they explore how people of conscience can stay engaged without losing hope, how faith communities can be both a refuge and a call to action, and how, even in the midst of turmoil, we can still proclaim, “It is well with my soul.”
The Three Tenors perform “It Is Well With My Soul” in Bath, England
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Ken welcomes pastor, historian, and special advisor to the President at Baylor University, Dr. Malcolm Foley. Just this month, his new book - The Anti-Greed Gospel: Why the Love of Money Is the Root of Racism and How the Church Can Create a New Way Forward - has just been released. Dr. Foley shares something of his faith and spiritual journey. As an undergraduate at Washington University in St. Louis, he majored in Finance and the Classics. After earning an M. Div. at Yale Divinity School, he completed his Ph.D. at Baylor. His dissertation focussed on the history of lynching in America, and the responses of African American Protestants to the horror of it all. Ken and Malcolm unpack the thesis of his new book: that racism is rooted in greed. They talk about his concept of racialized capitalism, the dominance of white supremacy, the witness of the “Church Fathers” and the biblical passages that deal with greed and wealth. In the 1987 movie Wall Street, Gordon Gekko (played by Michael Douglas) declares, “Greed is good!” Dr. Foley disagrees. He takes a deep dive into the reality of lynching and the use of violence and terror to subjugate black folks. It’s a hard look at history. They talk about Malcolm’s heroes in the movement: Martin Luther King, Malcolm X (for whom he was named), and Ida B. Wells among many others. Toward the end of their lively conversation, Ken asks Dr. Foley about the current weaponization of phrases like DEI, Woke, and CRT which do not appear in the book.
Don’t miss Malcolm’s response.
SHOW NOTES (see links to the book and more about Dr. Foley)
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In this episode, we get a close-up look at immigration - from the immigrant’s perspective.
Ken welcomes veteran actor, Stelio Savante who plays a key role in the new independent film, “Between Borders.” In his nearly forty years as an actor, Stelio is a SAG award nominee with over 140 credits in television, and theatrical releases. In the popular series, The Chosen, Stelio plays the role of Moses.
Ken and Stelio talk about his career in film. They follow his journey of faith, starting in his country of birth - South Africa. From Capetown, Stelio goes to college in the United States where he excels in sports - and in theater.
Then they get into the powerful drama of the film, Between Borders. Stelio plays the role of an American Missionary who meets Armenian refugee Ivan and Petrosyan family in Russia. Here’s a summary from the official web site -
“In a crumbling Soviet Union, the Petrosyan family finds themselves as outcasts—wherever they go. Their Armenian heritage marks them for discrimination, first in their home country of Azerbaijan and then in Russia. After finding their eternal hope through a church planted by American missionaries, the hostility of everyday life pushes them to seek refuge in the United States. In the shadow of exile, hope became their home. Based on a riveting true story of faith and hope set amidst great oppression.”
The role of Violeta Petrosyan is played by Elizabeth Tish (who plays Mary in The Chosen). Ken and Stelio unpack the power of the story and Stelio’s identification, himself an immigrant and now a citizen.
Stelio also tells the story of his role as Moses in The Chosen, and Demas (one of the thieves crucified with Jesus) in The Two Thieves.
SHOW NOTES - See links to Stelio’s work.
Between Borders Official Site - How to see the film
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Ken welcomes Osahon for another Cabana Talk and a review of the Super Bowl Half-Time Show. They invite their good friend Grant Young, a Play Station engineer they met in a Table Talk hosted by Ken and Osahon in 2021. As the Philadelphia Eagles met the Kansas City Chiefs for Super Bowl VIX, the epic half-time performance featured rapper Kendrick Lamar, Pulitzer Prize winner with 17 Grammys (47 nominations), twice named among TIME MAGAZINE’s Most Influential Person of the Year, Rock and Roll Hall of Famer and many other awards. Osahon and Grant have been long-time fans - and with enthusiasm watched the show together with great interest. From personal experience, both Osahon and Grant (a graduate of California Baptist University with both Bachelor's and Master's degrees) know white evangelical spaces well and lament much of the misplaced controversy around the famed Hip-Hop artist. They explain the very public, long-time tension between Lamar and Drake; the appearance of Samuel L. Jackson and Serena Williams; and the elegant symbolism on full display throughout the show. Ken, Osahon, and Grant agree with the USA TODAY Opinion that “The Super Bowl was a rejection of Trump’s Vision for America.” It was the first time in history that a sitting President appeared in person at the Super Bowl. He sat through the tepid reception (as many boos as cheers), the conspicuous absence of camera focus on him, the black national anthem, the many black artists who performed, the powerful half-time show, and the sound defeat of his favored Kansas City Chiefs. His later Truth Social posts confirmed that he was not pleased. This podcast is a lively, informative discussion of an event viewed by 128 million people around the globe. See SHOW NOTES for referenced articles.
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Kemp and Fong agree. We need each other now more than ever. Steve Bannon predicted the strategy of this new administration. He declared, “We’re gunna flood the zone with sh*t.” He was prophetic. The Zone has experienced a flash flood. The two Kens thought the new President’s intent would be to drain the swamp - but the flash flood of Executive Orders, the defunding, the closures, the pardons have all had the intended effect. None of us, not the politicians, not the media, not the pundits - none of us can keep up. The two podcasters review several articles that have been illuminating. One tells the story of Hungary: Viktor Orbán’s takeover of their vibrant democracy, turning it into an authoritarian state. The Atlantic published a thorough review of the history of Hitler’s first 53 days - in which he dismantled Germany’s democracy by using the Constitution to accomplish that goal. And then, V.P. J.D. Vance emerges as an amateur theologian, justifying the neglect of the marginalized by coming up with a “God-ordained hierarchy” that in essence, gets us off the hook for caring for our neighbors. It’s a collaboration of the Two Kens to stay on the alert, speak the truth, and maintain our vigilance. SHOW NOTES
SOURCES:
VOX - Their democracy died.They have lessons for America about Trump's power grab. Hungarians who lived through Viktor Orbán’s 2010 power grab warn Americans: Act now, before it’s too late by Zach Beachamp February 5, 2025
ATLANTIC - HOW HITLER DISMANTLED A DEMOCRACY IN 53 DAYS He used the Constitution to shatter the Constitution. By Timothy W. Ryback, JANUARY 08, 2025
JD Vance accidentally directed us to a crucial moral question: Just ignore the godawful reading of Christianity he used to get there. VOX by Sigal Samuel, February 6, 2025
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NUMBER 401
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Ken and Betsey review over five years of Beach Talks as Ken posts the podcast’s 400th episode. Three friends check in to celebrate - Darcy McKenzie, Osahon Obazuaye, and Ken Fong. Betsey, a Chicago resident, shares some of her experience this month spending three delightful weeks in Tuscon - the Arizona Desert. Ken and Betsey then compare notes on the new administration’s first two weeks in power. It’s been a firehose of headlines, including those controversial cabinet appointments, an avalanche of executive orders, bizarre explanations (for Southern California fires and then those terrible plane crashes), targeted attacks on D.E.I., inflationary tariffs, trade wars, and plans to absorb Canada, Mexico, Panama, Greenland, and now Gaza under America’s domain. Elon Musk takes the axe to congressionally mandated programs. Oh - don’t forget - it’s now “The Gulf of America” and “Mt. McKinley.” Predictions of the imposition of the feared Project 2025 (which the then-candidate for President claimed he knew nothing about) turn out to be way understated. Turns out, it was a detailed script for these first two weeks. The President and his supporters said they would “drain the swamp,” but it looks more like Steve Bannon’s colorful prediction - that on Day One, Trump would “flood the zone with sh*t.”
Ken and Betsey commit to keep this podcast and their Beach Talks going - we need each other now more than ever.
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When Ken researched his Bible School classmate, Melvin Warren, he stumbled across Dr. Curtis’ book. It referenced a familiar, legendary press conference. In 1970, at the famed Arch entrance at the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, Melvin made a speech as the cameras rolled and journalists scribbled notes. He claimed that the school’s racism so marred his experience as a student that he tore up his diploma and tossed it into the trash. He made national news.
That incident not only drove Ken into a years-long quest to understand the dynamic of racism in his white evangelical church but it also played significantly into the doctoral dissertation of another Moody grad, Dr. Jesse Curtis. Dr. Curtis is now an assistant professor at Valparaiso University. Ken and Jesse compare notes on that momentous event. It prompted Ken’s Beached White Male journey. It also contributed to Dr. Curtis’ doctoral focus - now a book considered a “must-read” by both Jemar Tisby and Kristin Kobes du Mez. Ken and Jese discuss The Myth of Colorblind Christians: Evangelicals and White Supremacy in the Civil Rights Era.
Dr. Curtis covers the history of racism in the white evangelical church going back to the Billy Graham era when Howard Jones became the first African American evangelist on “The Team.” Jesse believes that the Church Growth Movement founded by Donald McGavran contributed to the segregation that was a feature in the explosive growth the church at the turn of the century - including “ethnic” congregations and mega-churches. McGavran’s protege, C. Peter Wagner, added fuel that dynamic. In their wide-ranging discussion, they talk about evangelical super-stars like Rick Warren and Bill Hybels as well as champions like Bill Pannel, Tom Skinner and John Perkins. Curtis argues that the notion of “colorblind Christians” is a myth.
While he wrote some five years ago, the case is as relevant as ever. Just this week, in his inaugural address, the 47th President stated, “We will forge a society that is colorblind…” His supporters stood in enthusiastic applause. Ken and Jesse agree: this is not progress. SHOW NOTES
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Episode Number 399
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Ken welcomes Washington political commentator, speechwriter, and author Peter Wehner. Pete is a contributing writer at The Atlantic and a senior fellow at the Trinity Forum. He is well known for his prolific contribution to the intersection of politics, public policy, and faith. Early on, he identified as a conservative, a Republican, and an Evangelical. From 2011, when Donald Trump campaigned to challenge the legitimacy of the Obama Presidency, suggesting that he was born in Kenya and not the U.S.A., Wehner has called out the danger of a Trump presidency. Pete has been a stalwart in opposing Donald Trump and in the process, he no longer identifies as a Republican or an Evangelical. He remains a traditional conservative. However, he has offered a powerful and sustained critique of evangelical support for Donald Trump and a Republican Party that has become subservient to the newly elected President. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson played a key role in that transition. Ken and Pete have a lively discussion over his early years as a new Christian, his college career, the influence of his scientist father, his move to Washington, Reagan’s speech after the Challenger disaster, George Bush’s 9/11 speech (Pete was in the White House that fateful day), and finally Donald Trump’s complete take-over of the Republican Party and his return to the White House for a second term. SHOW NOTES
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Episode #398
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When Ken Fong saw the flames coming over the ridge from his front yard, he voluntarily evacuated along with his adult daughter. His home church, First Baptist of Pasadena, opened its doors to evacuees. Fong joined them for two nights. Ken Kemp, dealing with power outs, high winds, and menacing fire danger, called on Ken for a conversation around this catastrophic fire season - especially for Pacific Palisades and Altadena. Fong’s wedding, scheduled for this weekend, meant that a late-night departure from his home included a tuxedo and patent leather shoes. At the church, Ken shares the dramatic collection of painful stories he encountered the two nights he slept in the church.
In addition, the two Kens talk about the passing of President Jimmy Carter and his powerful legacy.
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In memory of President Jimmie Carter, Ken has invited three quests to share their personal reflections on a 100 year long life well lived: historian, professor and prolific author, Dr. Randall Balmer; retired Biola University political science professor, Dr. Dave Peters; and his Beach Talk friend, Betsey Newenhuyse (See Part I).
Here In Part Two, Dr. Balmer continues to share his thoughts from his recent article (Published in the L.A. Times, Religious News Service (RNS) and others) entitled, Jimmy Carter rid the presidency of lies. His fellow evangelicals? Not so much. Then, Dr. Dave Peters, a retired professor of Political Science at Biola University, shares his personal meeting with his inspiration, Jimmy Carter first at the Carter Center and also in Plaines, Georgia. Carter was a political model for Peters, a Democrat, who served on the City Council of LaMirada and was elected Mayor of that city for six terms.
Special Guests in Part I: Randall Balmer, Ph.D. and Betsey Newenhuyse
Redeemer: The Life of Jimmy Carter (Second Edition) by Randall Balmer, Ph.D.
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Special Guests in Part I: Randall Balmer, Ph.D. and Betsey Newenhuyse
In memory of President Jimmie Carter, Ken invites three quests to share their personal reflections on a 100 year long life well lived: historian, professor and prolific author, Dr. Randall Balmer; retired Biola University political science professor, Dr. Dave Peters; and his Beach Talk friend, Betsey Newenhuyse. In Part One, Dr. Balmer shares his thoughts from his recent article (Published in the L.A. Times, Religious News Service (RNS) and others) entitled, Jimmy Carter rid the presidency of lies. His fellow evangelicals? Not so much. He explains how evangelical enthusiasm for the peanut farmer’s victory soured over this four year - and then the powerful legacy he leaves, especially for his exemplary service in his post-presidency years. Betsey shares her life in the 70s as Nixon resigned and Carter beat Gerald Ford in 1976. SHOW NOTES
Part II: With Dr. Balmer and Dr. Peters to be released January 9, 2025
Redeemer: The Life of Jimmy Carter (Second Edition) by Randall Balmer, Ph.D.
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Ken welcomes Nate Manderson back as we close out our year and Season 5. Nate’s rich experience as a pastor, an educator, and an advocate for the working class has made him a popular writer for The Boston Globe and Salon.com. His most recent piece is entitled, How the left can get its mojo back: Listen to working-class people of faith. It’s a rich analysis of where the Democrats got it wrong in the Presidential election. Ken and Nate review the election and fill it in with Nate’s considerable experience in Boston schools from elementary to high school to community college. He connects with the labor force and the Latino community and helps us understand how Donald Trump managed to win a high degree of unlikely support. Ken and Nate get ready for the challenges of a new year. SHOW NOTES
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Ken and Betsey usually discuss politics. Today, they set aside the political turmoil in the headlines and discuss Christmas. Ken’s most recent Substack reflects on the central scene that is the focus of the celebration of Christmas by Christians all around the world - the Nativity. Joseph. Mary. The baby Jesus. It’s a wide-ranging conversation around literalism, fundamentalism, and a contemplation of what is real and true. From Charles Dickens to Karen Armstrong, they share their childhood experiences, Ken’s performance of White Christmas in a posh restaurant with a couple of carolers in Victorian dress, and neighborhood displays of inflatable Santas, Snowmen, Grinches, Mickey and Minnie, and of course, Nativity scenes.
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Ken shares his reflections on the opening of the restored Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris after the devastating fire of April 2019.
You can follow along on his Substack Page here.
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Ken and Betsey reflect on the Late Great Planet Earth, the monster 197o best-seller by Hal Lindsey, who passed away on November 25th. The cottage industry of apocalyptic books and movies spawned by Lindsey’s book live with us to this day. While they acknowledge the need to move on from the distress and anxiety of election day, they invite their listeners into a continued conversation of some of the main headlines. President Biden issued a complete pardon for his son, Biden. The week’s political conversation focussed on the president-elect’s Cabinet pick for Department of Defense, the controversial Pete Hegseth. Hegseth’s extreme political views are rooted in his church’s doctrine. Pilgrim Hill Reformed Fellowship is a member of the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches founded by the self-described “theologian,” Douglas Wilson of Moscow, Idaho. Health insurance companies are under scrutiny in the aftermath of the horrific, cold-blooded murder of United Health Care’s CEO, Brian Thompson. The two agree it’s time to gaze at the lights all around and be reminded of the delights and wonder of the Season.
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Ken welcomes back professor, author, and activist Dr. David Dark to discuss his new book, We Become What We Normalize. David shares the recent tragedy on Belmont University's campus in the shooting of the popular freshman, accomplished musician Jillian Ludwig . He tells us about the impact of this horrible incident on his students. The entire nation took note - raising the issue of gun control. David asks a provocative question: "Am I responsible for the lies that other people voice in my presence unchallenged?" When we are silent, we normalize. The conversation picks up Part I - discussing David's assertion that all of us -because we are human - are "religious." There exists good and bad/toxic and healthy religion. We must apply critical thinking to discern. Dr. Dark agrees with Christopher Hitchens that there is a form of religion that "poisons everything." To illustrate, they consider a diverse collection of individuals including Colin Kaepernick, Howard Thurman, Rush Limbaugh, and Donald Trump. In conclusion, David shares his long-time work in the Tennessee prison system - regrettably, a for-profit enterprise.
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SPOILER ALERT: If you have not seen the movie or read the book CONCLAVE, you may not want to listen (until you've seen the film or read the book). The Two Kens take a deep dive into the symbolism and message of this highly acclaimed motion picture starring Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, Isabella Rossellini, John Lithgow, and more. There’s much to discuss, unpack, and explore in this groundbreaking film. It’s a film set in the Vatican when a fictional Pope dies, leaving the College of Cardinals to isolate themselves in the Sistine Chapel where they will elect a new Holy Father from among their ranks. BE FOREWARNED: Kemp and Fong reveal the stunning surprise ending and examine its meaning for today.
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Ken shares his latest Substack entry: Factions - Tribal Warfare Has A Long History. It’s inspired by the Apostle Paul and Robert Harris’ novel, Conclave (now a highly acclaimed feature film). As we gather, let’s embrace the gifts that surround us, even in troubled times.
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As we somehow adjust to the presidential election results, we bid farewell to an evangelical leader who stood for integrity over conformity. As Ken and Betsey connect again and share their disappointment over the election results, they begin with a lengthy reflection on the life of a powerful communicator, an inspirational influencer, a compelling professor/theologian, and an entertaining orator - Tony Campolo. We don’t know if he was alert enough in those final days to have grasped the MAGA victory on November 5th, but he would certainly have shared our despondency. In this post-election Beach Talk, Ken asks Betsey to share her reactions as the election results became clear. They go on to react to some of the nominations in the headlines: Matt Gaetz, RFK Jr., Steven Miller, Elon Musk, Pete Hegseth, Mehmet Oz, and others. The fears of a Trump victory we all noted are being realized. Ken and Betsey lament the now-documented reality that a majority of those who voted chose this path. They conclude by sharing the need to find a place for gratitude as Thanksgiving Day approaches.
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Ken welcomes back to the podcast the originator of the hashtag that launched a movement: #exvangelical, Blake Chastain. They discuss his new book, Exvangelical and Beyond: How American Christianity Went Radical and the Movement Fighting Back. An undergraduate at an evangelical university in Central Indiana, Blake had questions - about the Bible, the exclusive truth claims, the identification with conservative politics, the indifference to Earth care, to race, to social justice, and finally, the full-on embrace of MAGA Trumpism. It was a crisis of faith. When his hashtag went viral, CBS called him for a life-changing interview. Blake started The Exvangelical Podcast. In a wide-ranging conversation, Ken and Blake explore the history of evangelicalism and the contributing factors that have led to the evangelicalism we know today. SHOW NOTES
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Ken joins Ken Fong for a morning after the election review. It’s not so much an autopsy on what went wrong as it is a reflection of their visceral response to the news that the 45th President won a decisive victory. He will become the 47th President of the United States. More than half the nation is celebrating this week - but celebrating what? The other less than half is deeply disappointed, fearful, depressed, and stunned. Once again, pollsters missed it. As a former senator put it, “Fear sells. Anger sells. Retribution and revenge sell. Us versus Them sells.” But an appeal to “the better angels of our nature”? Not so much. The two Kens call on several sources for insight and perspective, including Frank Schaeffer, Nadia Bolz Weber, and Robert Reich.
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Ken welcomes back essayist, teacher, guidance counselor, and ordained minister Nathaniel Manderson from his home in Boston. Last Summer, Nate took thirty days to walk the 500 mile Camino do Santiago pilgrimage tradition says was taken by St. James, the Apostle. It's the same journey memorialized by the Emilio Estevez film starring his father, Martin Sheen called The Way. Nate shares his remarkable journey - the prompting to go, the people he met, lessons along the way, and the intensely emotional climax that final day as he entered the Cathedral de Santiago de Compostela (consecrated in 1211 C.E.) Just a few days before their conversation, Nate's most recent opinion piece was published in the Boston Globe entitled Democrats: Let Me (Re)Introduce You to the Working Class. Even with his advanced academic degrees, he considers himself a member of that working class. Nate is a contributor to the popular news site SALON. His author page makes the introduction:
Nathaniel Manderson was educated at a conservative seminary, trained as a minister, ordained through the American Baptist Churches USA and guided by liberal ideals. Throughout his career he has been a pastor, a career counselor, an academic adviser, a high school English teacher and an advocate for first-generation and low-income students, along with a paper delivery man, a construction worker, a FedEx package handler and whatever else he could do to take care of his family.
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Ken welcomes writer, teacher, preacher and justice advocate, Jim Wallis. Rev. Wallis’ new book, The False White Gospel: Rejecting Christian Nationalism, Reclaiming True Faith, and Refounding Democracy is getting high marks and a wide reading. It’s a timely and prophetic challenge in an era of polarization and worse, the advancement in America of what Jim calls an heretical version of The Gospel. Wallis calls this a “Bonhoeffer moment.” Silence is not an option. Ken and Jim reminisce over their days together at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School where they both earned a Master of Divinity degree. The famed Carl F. H. Henry influenced them both. In 1973, Henry and Wallis framed The Chicago Declaration along with other prominent evangelical signatories, a document that rings true to this very day. Jim has authored more than a dozen books. He is founder and served as chief editor of Sojourner’s Magazine. Today, he holds the prestigious Chair in Faith and Justice at Georgetown University in Washington DC named for his friend Bishop Desmund Tutu. In a wide-ranging conversation, they talk about Wallis’ journey since those seminary days, putting him in the center of the Civil Rights movement, appearing over the years as a regular on CNN, MSNBC, The Today Show, and many other major outlets as a Social Action alternative to the infamous Religious Right. Ken asks Jim why he still considers himself an “evangelical.” Jim shares inside stories about his many friends - Ron Sider, Ron Dellums, Howard Thurman, John Lewis, Barack Obama, Jamie Raskin and many more. SHOW NOTES
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Ken welcomes historian, author, and media commentator Martyn Whittock from his home across the Pond just outside London. Martyn read Ken’s Substack series on Biblical Authority and reached out with some comments. It prompted this lively conversation - and led to another focus: Martyn’s article recently published in the UK - How US Evangelicals Could Affect the Entire World. Whittock, a licensed minister in the Church of England, is a self-described “Evangelical.” For years, he has been a student of American Evangelicalism. He gives us a fascinating insight into the differences between our two countries: in America - the preponderance of MAGA Evangelicals, and in Britain - a very different sort of evangelical. Martyn expresses his deep concern over the prospect of a second term for the 45th President not only for the USA. He believes a second Trump Presidency will have an egregious adverse effect on Europe and the entire world. He explains this in considerable detail. Then, Ken asks Martyn about two recent appearances on British television as a history specialist. In the first, Martyn comments on the recent terror attack in Moscow that killed over one hundred in a large theater. In the second, he is asked about the Princess of Wales and the conspiracy theories that surrounded her hospital stay and absence from public life. You can see those clips by clicking on the links. SHOW NOTES
Martyn Whittock on British TV: CBN LIVE on The Princess of Wales | Talk TV with Trisha Goddard on the Moscow Terror Attack (11-22 minutes into the program)
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For a second time, Ken welcomes Rev. Ben Cremer to the podcast for Season 5. Ken starts by thanking Ben for that first interview, "Myths We Believe," which is far and away the most downloaded podcast of Ken's more than 300 episodes (exceeding the former first-place interview with Kristin Kobes Du Mez). Ben is a prolific author, just finishing up the manuscript of his first book. He has a big audience for his newsletter, which is delivered weekly on Sunday mornings. He calls it "Into The Gray." It's a resource of books, podcasts, and then a thoughtful essay of his own around important issues of the day. Ken chose three to discuss on this podcast - first, "A Troubling Conversation" highlighting the commonly held doctrine of Total Depravity. The second contemplates the common default answer when Christians encounter those who hold opposite views. They'll say, "Well, they aren't REAL Christians." The third addresses a spiritual discipline that is widely ignored in the traditions both Ben and Ken grew up in - lament. Ben brings fresh, sometimes provocative thinking to all three issues. Ken predicts that this conversation will be another that breaks records. SHOW NOTES
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In this election year, immigration has become a major political issue. Some would like you to believe immigration is tantamount to a veritable “invasion” of undesirables or worse. However, since the 1980s, a little-known faith-based movement has taken a very different view. Humanitarian organizations, legal advocates, and religious groups have collaborated to provide advocacy, shelter, and assimilation. Thanks to generous grants and support from the Henry Luce Foundation, the Institute for Religion, Media, and Civic Engagement and the American Academy of Religion, Executive Producer Brad Onshi presents a seven-episode podcast that tells the story of “The Sanctuary Movement.” Scholars Lloyd Barba, Ph.D. (Professor, Amherst College) and Sergio Gonzales, Ph.D. (Professor, Marquette University) bring their research to the program with a focus on asylum seekers from Central America. The Sanctuary Movement has been active for hundreds of years - around the world. But it began in earnest in this country in 1982 with a wave of immigrants from war-torn El Salvador and Guatemala. It’s a story of faith as radical hospitality and the tension over “the borders between church and state.” Ken and Dr. Barba talk about the podcast series and how the current political climate distorts and harms both immigrants and Americans. SHOW NOTES
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The two Ken’s reconvene at about 23 days out. The predictions seem to be coming true. The conspiracies, the threats, the misinformation, the falsehoods, and name-calling all proliferate. Kemp and Fong remain stymied that the race could possibly be this close. From the outset, the Two Kens make movie recommendations: Kemp - Bad Faith and Fong - Conclave. It opens up a conversation about Catholicism, J.D. Vance’s conversion and the legacy of Vatican II. As the election closes in, there are hopeful signs. Malcolm Gladwell and Michael Moore weigh in. Kamala Harris’s energy and focus remain strong - she seems undeterred by the vicious, fabricated attacks. She appears fearlessly in a wide range of interviews across the media spectrum. With the former president’s and his running mate’s fallacious charges of theft, mismanagement, and “incompetence,” they frustrate recovery efforts prompted by the twin hurricane tragedies - Helene and Milton. The former president’s claim of superior genes and the suggestion that undocumented immigrants carry “bad genes” comes right out of the blatantly racist pseudoscience of eugenics. They finish with some suggestions on how to survive until election day - and better, to do all we can to secure this critical victory.
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Just this year, Neelam Warren-Pal graduated from DePauw University with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Communications. Her late grandfather, Melvin Warren, was Ken's classmate in the late 1960s.
When Ken left Southern California after graduating high school in 1966, he traveled to Chicago where he became a student at the Moody Bible Institute. Among his freshman dorm mates was Melvin Warren. They had long talks into the night. In retrospect, it was a clash of cultures. Four years later, Melvin called a press conference and announced that the Bible school was a white, hopelessly racist institution. Rather than receive an education, it caused him much harm. See JET MAGAZINE article from 1970.
All these years, Ken lived with the suspicion that his response to Melvin’s life story on the South Side of Chicago had contributed to his profound disappointment. Several years ago, Ken attempted to locate him - only to find that Melvin had died - too soon. Ken wrote a letter to Melvin and read it on a Beached White Male podcast episode - posted April 17, 2020.
Several months later from her college dorm, Neelam, Melvin’s granddaughter, decided on her own to search Google for the grandfather she had never met. Ken’s podcast came up. Neelam listened as this stranger from California read a letter to her grandfather. He reflected on their days in Bible school more than fifty years before. Neelam shared her discovery with her Mom, Karen, Melvin’s daughter.
Since then Ken, Karen and Neelam have become friends. In this episode, you will hear Neelam’s version of this heartwarming story. A graduate of DePauw University, Neelam hopes to be a podcaster. Her plan is to interview popular hip-hop artists. Ken and Neelam talk about her favorites: Doechii, Noname, and Megan Thee Stallion. SHOW NOTES
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The Republican Vice-President candidate had two objectives: 1) to appear the “nice guy” (as opposed to the extreme MAGA champion) and 2) to make the former President’s campaign sound reasonable (which it isn’t). It seemed to work until the second half. New to the national stage, Tim Walz had a rough start. Prepped by Pete Buttigieg, he appeared nervous and over-prepared. Ken compares the governor’s opener to showing up for a tough exam after an all-night cramming session. But as Walz got comfortable, he scored big points, pushing Vance to display his authentic MAGA self. Ken and Betsey review the high and low moments of the debate. They reflect on the journeys of the two candidates that brought them to the national spotlight. Then they turn to other subjects: the passing of the incomparable actor Maggie Smith and a major Chicago Tribune article exposing Wheaton College’s connection to both Project 2025 and Evangelicals for Harris.
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Ken welcomes Ed Oxford, key researcher and contributor to the film 1946 - The Mistranslation that Shifted Culture. Ed, who identifies as a gay Christian, graduated with a Master of Divinity degree from Talbot Theological Seminary in New Testament. In the years that followed, his study of the original languages and the many English translations of the Christian scriptures brought him to the undeniable conclusion that the “Bible has been weaponized against the LGBTQ+ community.” A case in point is a passage from I Corinthians in which the 1946 Revised Standard Version (RSV) erroneously translated a Greek word, introducing the term “homosexual” to the Bible for the very first time. The film’s trailer begins with Rev. John MacArthur quoting from his pulpit, “Neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals shall inherit the Kingdom of God.”
Along with colleague Kathy Baldock, Ed won access to the archives at Yale University. He and Kathey explored the source materials: the translator's notes and records used to produce the New Testament. In the original documents, they uncovered the debate over this word choice and finally the admission of the error. The revised RSV changed the word in 1974. But too late. Subsequent translations repeat the error: e.g. The Living Bible (promoted by Billy Graham), the New American Standard Bible (NASB), and most recently, the English Standard Version (ESV - promoted by John MacArthur). Homosexuality became synonymous with “perversion” - and weaponized. Ed shares his personal experience as a gay man in the evangelical church that includes reparative therapy and finally the story of his involvement in the film - a timely and important corrective. SHOW NOTES
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When Adey and Tom Wassink launched a Vineyard Church in the university town of Iowa City (IA) twenty-five years ago, it didn’t take long to fill the worship center. A winsome and intelligent couple, they brought a love for the church, an intense engagement in the wider community and a focus on their own education. Tom, a medical doctor, when on to certify as a psychiatrist. Adey pursued and completed her doctorate at Fuller Seminary. In time, Adey was officially recognized as Senior/Lead Pastor. When the Vineyard denomination affirmed a policy prohibiting the ordination of women, the church left and changed its name. When Katie Imborek, M.D., attended, to her surprise, she warmed to the community and the worship. But she wasn’t at all certain that it would be a “safe place.” Would she, her spouse, Paula, and her children be accepted by the congregation? Or would they face the harmful prejudices and coded messages all to often found in church? She wrote to Pastors Adey and Tom with direct questions about their attitude towards same-sex marriage, the clobber passages in the Bible, and the general attitude of the congregation to individuals and families like Dr. Katie’s? That sent Tom and Adey into a period of deep reflection, introspection, study of their Scriptures, and open conversations with their people. They became Sanctuary Church. Ken and Dr. Tom explore the story told in their book, Sanctuary: Queering the Church in the Heartland.
Brian McLaren says, “[This book] is a gift – a series of often humorous, often poignant, sometimes heartbreaking, and always well told stories and reflections – to help us all rethink what is normal or queer, what is sacred or scandalous, what is bad or good. We may just become better people in the process. May it be so!”
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Dr. David Gushee returns to continue the timely discussion of his new book, The Moral Teachings of Jesus. Ken and David expand on the Golden Rule. Gushee’s doctoral work at Union Seminary focussed on ethics and the Holocaust. His work on the horrors of torture got the attention of Christianity Today when the horrific American abuses against prisoners held at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay came to light. Christian military officials asked the magazine for guidance. In reponse, David was commissioned to write CT’s extensive cover story. In it, he clarified, “the prohibition on torture in international law admits no exceptions,” and then offered an ethical treatise rooted in Jesus’ teaching. Dr. Gushee expands on Jesus’ emphasis on what we do over what we say - “By our fruit” we will be known. He points to the heavy implications that relate to money and wealth in Jesus’ direct challenge. No one can serve both God and money. “Where your heart is, there will your treasure be.” It’s a lively, insightful conversation filled with wisdom, humor and common sense - especially valuable for those sorting out the demands of toxic religion from the potent, life-altering teachings of the Rabbi from Nazareth. SHOW NOTES
The Moral Teachings of Jesus: Radical Instruction in the Will of God
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As promised, here is the heartwarming, personal story - when Mark Bodnarczuk reached out to Philip Yancey’s brother Marshall. Phillip shared Marshall’s story in his memoir and on the podcast. The two brothers responded to their father’s early death and their hyper-fundamentalist church in their own unique way. Philip became a prolific writer of Christian books. Marshall began as a young musical prodigy. Many who knew him expected that he would entertain audiences as an accomplished concert pianist. Instead, as Philip attests, Marshall dropped out of college and became one of the “first real hippies in Atlanta.” Through the decades, he suffered some serious health issues. Today from his wheelchair, he has difficulty communicating. A serious stroke has affected his speech. He understands what people say, but his responses are labored. When Mark Bodnarczuk’s job at Stanford put him close to Marshall’s home, he reached out to Philip’s brother. The two have become mutually supportive friends. In this special episode of the podcast, both Philip and Mark share their versions of this touching story. SHOW NOTES
March 2024 Podcast with Mark | Purchase the Book on Amazon | Mark’s Official Website
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The Two Kens are back with their take on the Presidential Debate. Just a few days later, the spin masters have already had their impact, obscuring Kamala Harris’ blistering victory over her opponent, Donald Trump. Most everyone agreed, including Republican politicians and pundits, that Harris won. Kemp and Fong recorded the day after the debate, with fresh commentary from start to finish. Harris took command from the beginning, with a confident handshake and greeting to a surprised and hesitant Trump. Some 67 million viewers watched the debate. The Two Kens celebrate “the sweet smell of hope” as Harris keeps the high energy enthusiasm alive. She invites the television audience to take in a Trump rally to see the madness for themselves. Trump takes her bait, reverting to crowd size, tropes about immigration, Project 2025, and insane asylums. Perhaps his most outrageous Trump comment was his self-assured claim that immigrants “are eating the dogs!” When challenged by a fact-checking moderator, he doubled down. This false claim has sparked a huge controversy and put the town of Springfield, Ohio in the crosshairs of bomb threats and racist attacks. Trump pathetically visited the “Spin Room,” claiming a victory that was not his. It’s a lively retrospective on an historic night.
Ken’s Substack Article - “They’re Eating the Dogs”
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Ken welcomes Mark Bodnarczuk back to the podcast. As he shared with Ken in March of this year, the fentanyl crisis in our country is real - and made an unwelcome visit to his home. Thomas, Mark’s then 17-year-old son, took a pill he bought on the Internet that he believed was Xanax. He died a short time after swallowing the tablet. The autopsy showed that it was fentanyl - a deadly dose in a single pill. It’s the subject of his new book (to be released October 15) - Finding New Life After the Death of My Son: Grace and Forgiveness in the Age of Counterfeit Pills and Fentanyl Poisoning. Mark shares his faith journey, and the impact of this unthinkable tragedy on his understanding of God, the Bible, science, and his years of therapy. A graduate of a Christian school (Wheaton College), his career has taken him to Stanford University and the SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory, which is currently building the largest digital camera for space exploration ever made. Mark’s keen interest in science, from the atom to the cosmos has also been influenced by the work of famed psychologist Carl Jung. Mark shares how psychology and science have shaped his faith, his love for the Bible, and his capacity to forgive. It’s a very personal story that takes us from the courtroom to the mountains of Colorado to the labyrinth - both inner and outer. Ken and Mark talk about significant authors including C.S. Lewis, Tim Keller, John Ortburg, and Philip Yancey (who write the Foreword to Mark’s book). SHOW NOTES
March 2024 Podcast with Mark | Purchase the Book on Amazon | Mark’s Official Website
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David Gushee - author, ethicist and global influencer - returns to talk about his new book entitled The Moral Teachings of Jesus: Radical Instruction in the Will of God. Professor Gushee, like Ken, interacts with many folks of all ages and stages who have become disillusioned with Christianity - particularly the evangelical version that has become identified with political conservatism. Often, while deconstructing religion, these same people will report - Jesus’ life and teaching remain relevant and compelling. Ken takes the opportunity to ask some questions he’s had for a long time: Why did my tradition focus way more on Paul than Jesus? Since the four gospels were written years after Jesus, how can we rely on them as an accurate account of the teachings of Jesus? Has the “Great Commission” in Matthew 28 been misrepresented and misunderstood to justify colonialism? Imperialism? To make the world like us? What about Matthew 25? Was Jesus influenced by the community at Qumran? Ken and Dr. Gushee review a collection of Jesus’ teachings that are surprisingly relevant today. They include a review of Gushee’s graduate school mentor, Glen Stassen’s reading of the Sermon on the Mount, “no one can serve both God and mammon;” the “Golden Rule;” the house built on a rock; the rich man, Lazarus and “eternal conscious torment;” the woman caught in adultery; the Samaritan woman at the well, and more. Dr. Gushee finishes with a surprisingly powerful conclusion. SHOW NOTES
The Moral Teachings of Jesus: Radical Instruction in the Will of God
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Ken welcomes Darcy McKenzie back for a follow-up conversation post-DNC (Democratic Convention). When Tim Walz made his acceptance speech on Thursday Night, Darcy contacted her considerable network of political activists in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area to come to her home for a Tim Walz watch party. Local ABC affiliate Eyewitness News (Channel 5) sent a crew to Darcy and Dane’s home to interview her and her guests. Ken and Darcy talk about the enthusiastic celebration in her backyard as the Minnesota Governor accepted the nomination to be Kamala Harris’ Vice President as Gus cheered. They also offer a post-convention review. Ken checks in on Darcy’s reaction to Jill and Joe Biden, Michelle and Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey, Pete Buttigieg, Gabby Giffords, Mark Kelly, Governor Josh Shapiro, Maya Harris, and finally, Kalama’s acceptance speech. Darcy is a genuine insider - with insights and perspectives that bring clarity, conviction, and contagious excitement. SHOW NOTES
VIDEO - Minnesotans gather at watch parties to watch Walz DNC address
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The morning after the 2024 Democratic Convention closed with a dazzling acceptance speech from Kamala Harris. Ken Fong joins Ken for a week’s end review. Harris is the first woman of color in history to receive a party’s nomination for President of the United States. Kemp’s Substack Article became the theme of their talk, rooted in Abraham’s Inaugural Address from 1861 when he appealed to “the better angels of our nature.” They compare and contrast the RNC with the DNC. The Republican’s dystopian theme - “this country is going to hell” - will be remembered as a stark contrast with the Democrats by claiming “a future and a hope” and by calling for freedom from the unAmerican blueprint of Project 2025. Kemp says, “The DNC is an appeal to the better angels of our nature.” They discuss the poignant comments of Frank Schaeffer - the “atheist who believes in God” - on the presidential contest. The son of the famed Christian apologist Francis Schaeffer, Frank Jr. predicts utter disaster if Donald Trump wins. The two Ken’s hit the highlights of the week - Joe Biden’s passing of the baton to Harris. Michelle Obama’s lightning bolt of a speech riveted everyone in the packed arena and the millions of us who tuned in. “Who’s going to tell him that the job he’s currently seeking might just be one of those ‘Black jobs’?” she said. The surprise appearance of the Central Park Five reminded us of Trump’s efforts to have these innocent men executed. So many more. Adam Kinsinger. Gabby Gifford. Republican Mayor John Giles. Oprah Winfrey. Doug Emhoff. Kamala’s sister, Maya. Tim Walz’s rousing acceptance speech as his son Gus celebrated through his tears with irrepressible joy. And finally, the nominee herself, Kamala Harris accepted the nomination to the roar of the crowd. “America, let us show each other - and the world - who we are. And what we stand for. Freedom. Opportunity. Compassion. Dignity. Fairness. And endless possibilities.”
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Piper Dellums, keynote speaker, author, filmmaker, poet, and activist returns to the podcast as the nation’s political drama intensifies. Piper responded enthusiastically to Ken’s Substack article, “Yeah, … She’s a DEI hire” (a reflection on the Republican’s vain attempt to diminish the Democratic nominee for President, Kamala Harris.) Piper brings profound insight into the state of our nation. As an undergraduate at the University of California at Berkeley, Piper was an Alpha Kappa Alpha, Inc. (AKA) Sorority member, the same as Kamala Harris when she attended Howard University. No stranger to politics, Piper is the daughter of the late Honorable Ron Dellums who served as Mayor of Oakland California after he served for 28 years as a member of the United States House of Representatives. In the 80s and 90s, Congressman Dellums played an active role in pressuring South Africa to dismantle and outlaw the historically racist apartheid system. He was a personal friend to F.W. de Klerk, Nelson Mandela, and Bishop Tutu. Ken and Piper talk about Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI), the extraordinary rise of Kamala Harris, her popular running mate Tim Walz, and their eclipse of Donald Trump - relegating him to the shadows. On a very personal level, Piper shares her experience in a church that pressured her to remain in an abusive marriage - and how she found the strength to escape with the help and care of some unexpected, unlikely advocates. SHOW NOTES
Links: Piper’s Official Web Site | Piper’s YouTube Channel | Earthstock Summit
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For Part II in our series, Ken welcomes political activist and friend of the podcast, Darcy McKenzie. Darcy has been actively involved in local politics from her home in Mendota Heights, just south of Minneapolis, Minnesota. Darcy gives us the backroom story of the selection of her Governor, Tim Walz, to be Kamala Harris’ running mate in her pursuit of the Presidency. Like our friend Betsey Newenhuyse, Darcy was actively engaged in the campaign to encourage Harris to choose Sec. of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg. She shares her personal meeting with Sec. Pete at a local round table just after the now infamous debate (Biden v. Trump). She also relates her meetings with Jill Biden and other political notables. While she shares her team’s disappointment over Pete, her enthusiasm for Gov. Tim Walz is not dampened. Around Minnesota, it’s often said, “He’s not the DEI candidate, he’s the REI Candidate.” Darcy gives us a close look at the Governor’s reputation in Minnesota - and celebrates the new Democrat ticket. Darcy is a proud military Mom. Her activism is rooted in a deep love of country, and pride in her sons and her Governor who is now along with the Presidential Nominee bringing joy, hope, and excitement to the nation - and the world. SHOW NOTES
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In a two-part series, we explore the Vice President’s decision to invite Minnesota Governor Tim Walz to be her running mate. Ken admits his unbridled enthusiasm, especially following that Philadelphia Rally where the two made a joyful, energetic launch in front of a roaring, capacity crowd. Betsey’s enthusiasms are somewhat muted because for the past few weeks, she has been actively engaged with a team of advocates across the nation to promote Pete Buttigieg for the position. As anticipation reached a fever pitch, the announcement was a let-down for Betsey and her friends. In this episode, she tells the story of the backroom drama - and then finally, her embrace of the ticket. Both Ken and Betsey share their firm belief that the former President’s campaign, including his choice of V.P., are facing a formidable foe in Harris/Walz.
Part II is a conversation with political activist and friend of the podcast, Minnesota resident - Darcy McKenzie. Like Betsey, Darcy is a loyal Pete supporter. But she also loves her Governor, Tim Walz.
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When a young man gets bored during the sermon in a starched Presbyterian Church on a Sunday morning, he pages through the Hymnal. That was Scott barely twelve years old who found, of all things, a Swastika at the top of the page at the end of the book he found in the church pew. The Swastika was crossed out. A cross appeared beneath it, indicating a clear Christian protest against the symbol that has lived in infamy ever since. The heading spelled out the historic Barmen Declaration of 1934. It was written then by German Clergy (led by theologian Karl Barth) who protested the State Church’s endorsement and embrace of Nazi ideology. It was a potent and risky rejection of the “Furher’s” influence in the Church. Years later, 2018, now Dr. McClelland, a student of The Living School (founded by Fr. Richard Rohr) sat in a discussion group with his fellow students as they considered the political turmoil two years into the Trump Presidency. He brought a copy of the Barmen Declaration to the group. Together they determined that this document to be surprisingly relevant. They all agreed, it must be updated and reintroduced to all Americans. From a broad spectrum of faith traditions, it’s a call to all of us who share a commitment to contemplative action for “love and compassion, healing of division, promotion, and protection of human dignity, and the stewardship of creation.” The new version is called BARMEN TODAY: A CONTEMPORARY CONTEMPLATIVE DECLARATION. Father Richard Rohr gave his hearty endorsement, calling it a summary of the Living School’s reason for being. While some 18,000 signed the original declaration in the 1930s, over 31,000 have signed Barmen Today. Ken and Scott unpack the history and application of the declaration - and prepare to encourage many more to sign.
READ AND SIGN the BARMEN TODAY document by clicking here.
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The Two Ken’s reconvene to talk about Joe Biden’s decision to step aside and pass the torch. He gave his full endorsement to his Vice President. Kamala Harris quickly emerged as the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party. It triggered an explosion of enthusiasm. After the assassination attempt, the Republican Campaign reported that their candidate was a “changed man.” Determined to be a uniter, he emerged from his close brush with death as a candidate for President of the whole country, not just half. It lasted for only a few minutes in the opening pre-packaged acceptance speech. He strayed from the teleprompter - proving that he hadn’t changed at all. Republicans, caught off guard and flat-footed, launched their attack - much of it personal. Many referred to the Vice President as a “D.E.I. hire.” J.D. Vance talks about “childless cat ladies.” Religious leaders, like the New Apostolic Reformation “prophet,” Lance Walnau, call her a “Jezebel.” The two Kens consider the in-depth meaning of these personal attacks. They unpack the unfolding events, noting that V.P. Kamala Harris has exceeded expectations, launching a nationwide movement that has brought to the campaign a sweet smell of success.
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Betsey returns to review the historical events unfolding right before us. The former President’s final convention speech upended the claim that he is “a changed man.” Betsey and Ken were depressed when headlines blared talk of a landslide victory for him - but then, the news came that Biden would relinquish his role as presumptive nominee. The announcement that VP Kamala Harris would emerge as the leading candidate sparked a resurgence of excitement across the party and the nation. Now, we anticipate the selection of a Vice President. Ken and Betsey weigh the options in a free-wheeling, optimistic conversation infused with hope.
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THIS EPISODE WAS RECORDED PRIOR TO THE ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT IN BUTLER< PA. Ken and Betsey reconvene for a post-debate debrief. Just before highly anticipated Presidential debate between the 45th and 46th Presidents, Ken and Betsey gave their predictions. They agreed that the “State of the Union Joe” would show up, energetic, focused and ready to take on his vulnerable opponent. Even Trump world expected it - as evidenced by the former President’s fiendish and unfounded suggestion that the President would be fresh off a cocaine hit. As the world now knows, the President’s demeanor would be on the opposite end of the energy scale. President Biden called it “a bad night.” And it was. Since the debate, the nation has been focussed on calls for him to gracefully drop out of the race. All the while, Donald Trump’s “firehose of lies” has been tragically overlooked - but not here. Ken reviews his most egregious “whoppers” as Betsey reacts. Ken and Betsey unpack Project 2025 - and their thoughts about where we go from here. Betsey names two worthwhile causes worth our support.
Betsey’s Recommends for Support: Wisconsin Dems (Wisconsin Democratic Party) | Ben Wickler
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Ken shares some brief thoughts about the shocking events at a Butler, Pennsylvania political rally.
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When Ken first knew Rick Axtell, he was a high school student. Ken, a seminarian in his early 20s, was his Youth Pastor at a church in the northern suburbs of Chicago. Rick was a leader in the youth group. When Rick moved to Mississippi and Ken graduated, they bid farewell - turns out, for fifty years. Just in the past few months, they have become re-acquainted, chatting on video calls with two other members of the long-ago youth group. Rick has had an extraordinary career as a college professor and chaplain, serving on the same Kentucky campus (the highly regarded Centre College) for three decades. Ken and Rick share their journey and their profound awakenings. Rick shares his experience in war-torn Bangladesh and how it set the course of his life. His coursework, his travels (with students), and his engagement with homelessness, poverty, and hunger have enormously impacted his life and career. His commitment to addressing the needs of the marginalized and the neglected, including LGBTQ+, has earned him the respect and admiration of his students, fellow faculty, and colleagues. On retirement, the college established an Endowment in Rick’s name. It reflects his passion and his remarkable contribution to the college community - advancing “religion, peace, and social justice.”
SHOW NOTES (learn more about Dr. Axtell)
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The headlines are filled with tragic stories of clergy misconduct - abuse, power, control, and church cover-ups. Elizabeth Pankey-Warren, M.Div., MSW, and Spiritual Director (The Living School), has counseled the victims and perpetrators of abuse both as a therapist and as an ordained minister. In her work, she has also encountered clergy abuse in the context of her own church workplace. She shares her personal journey with Ken. It began with a profound spiritual encounter at a Billy Graham Crusade (at the tender age of 13); on through college and seminary (Vanderbilt Divinity School in Nashville); and then to her pastoral roles and finally - her work as a sought-after therapist. Her passion is mind/body/spirit holistic health with specialties in Yoga and nutrition. It’s a refreshing, candid, lively conversation with a successful professional who also remains unencumbered by the constraints of fundamentalist religion and conservative politics. SHOW NOTES
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The two Ken’s check in the day after the GREAT DEBATE. While Ken Fong refused to make pre-debate predictions, Ken Kemp did. In the pre-debate Beach Talk with Betsey Newenhuyse, they anticipated that the energetic, focussed, forceful “State of the Union Joe” would appear. Most Republican commentators, including the 45th President, did, too. That’s why they concocted stories about Joe’s “cocaine habit” (or, according to the Speaker of the House, Mountain Dew.) The two Ken’s share their personal reactions as the 90-minute debate dragged on - with Biden badly missing his marks and Trump spewing what Ken Fong calls “a firehose of lies.” CNN’s Vann Jones shares his visceral reaction. But the question now is - where from here? What are the alternatives? The two Ken’s have a surprising possible candidate. SHOW NOTES
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Ken checks in with Betsey to make some predictions in anticipation of the Presidential debate. Betsey predicts that Joe Biden will step up and perform as he did at the State of the Union and that Donald Trump will announce his VP pick in an effort to make news that will overshadow any possible gaffs. Betsey points out that the abortion issue is triggering a serious backlash among women against Republican pro-candidates. Project 2025, the brainchild of the Heritage Foundation is getting lots of attention as a road map of what will happen to our country if there is a Trump victory. Stephen Miller is a key architect of the plan. Betsey lays out her research. Louisiana has passed a law requiring the Ten Commandments to be posted in all public school classrooms. Donald Trump signaled his support. Ken notices that he is in public violation of all ten. SHOW NOTES
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Amanda Munroe shares her personal journey of life and faith; justice and pluralism. She currently serves as Director of Restorative Practices for Engaged Pluralism at Vassar College in Upstate New York. (Founded in 1861 as the second degree-granting institution of higher education for women in the United States, Vassar became coed in 1969.) Amanda is a specialist in conflict resolution, conducting faculty and student workshops on her campus and beyond. She has a rich academic background, beginning with B.A. (magna cum laude) in Global Studies and French from North Park University. During her studies, she lived and studied in France and West Africa where she became fluent in French. Amanda earned an M.A. in Conflict Resolution in the Department of Government at Georgetown University in Washington D.C. Then, she completed a Master of Divinity at Union Theological Seminary in New York where she studied alongside another of Ken’s guests, Dr. Isaac Sharp (author of The Other Evangelicals). Ken explores Amanda’s journey, from active involvement in Young Life during high school and her developing faith that has stoked a passion for restoration, justice and engaged pluralism. Learn more about Amanda in our SHOW NOTES.
Ken’s Interview With Amanda’s Dad - Jeff Munroe
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In 1997, when Philip Yancey submitted his manuscript to his publisher, he had serious doubts that his new offering (which followed his popular book, The Jesus I Never Knew) would find an audience. He knew his evangelical readers. In Yancey’s mind, the chapters on a Democrat President (Bill Clinton) and a fellow author who “came out” as gay (Mel White), would not set well - especially when he called for “grace.” To his surprise, What’s So Amazing About Grace became his best-seller. Today, 25 years later, Philip and his publishers agree. The need to apprehend and exhibit grace is greater today than ever in our polarized world. After making some revisions - mainly updates - the book has been released.
Ken welcomes back one of his favorite guests. After reminiscing over some good times together, they talk about the book. Better - they talk about grace. Amazing grace. Yancey shares his growing-up years - the racism that dominated his church, his neighborhood, and his Southern state (Georgia). They talk about his friendship with Bill Clinton, who read his books and regularly met with Philip’s friends, Tony Campolo and Gordon McDonald. They explore his friendship with Mel White, who for years was the ghostwriter for high-profile evangelical leaders: Francis Schaeffer, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, Oliver North, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, W.A. Criswell and Jerry Falwell and more. After years of depression, hiding, reparative therapy, and self-loathing, Mel came to terms with his identity. Philip was there; dispensing grace.
Back in the 90’s, PBS’s Bill Moyers produced a documentary - Amazing Grace - that beloved hymn. Yancey was moved by that hour long exploration of the hymn’s universal appeal. Moyers tells the story of the writer, John Newton, a brutal slave trader, who wrote the words: “Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me.” Yancey agrees, Newton was indeed a wretch. By grace, he ultimately became a fervent abolitionist.
That’s what grace can do.
What’s So Amazing About Grace? (Revised and Updated) On Amazon
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Ken welcomes Christine Talbot who recently retired from her significant role as Senior Vice President for Human Resources at the highly regarded global relief non-profit, World Vision. During her eight-year tenure, she worked closely with CEO Richard Stearns in Federal Way, Washington. Ken asks Christine to share her unique philosophy that is not only rooted in her years at World Vision but also as Vice President for Human Resources at the high-profile healthcare giant, Kaiser Permanente. She brings a fresh perspective that goes well beyond compliance, endless training sessions, and tedious report gathering. Christine, an avid cyclist and ballroom dancer, is also a poet. She shares her journey in two of her poems. Unraveling is a personal account of a period in her life when she felt her identity was slipping away. Path to Redemption reveals the anchor that has kept her grateful and energized through difficult times. SHOW NOTES.
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Continuing the conversation around the first-ever criminal conviction of the former President, Ken reaches out to Ken Fong. The two podcasters further explore the implications of this watershed, historical moment. Fong opens the podcast by quoting Fox sports writer Colin Cowherd on the trial’s outcome. The MAGA Republican spin masters (including Mike Johnson, John Cornyn, Steve Scalese, Elyse Stefanik and many others) are working overtime to convince the American people that the verdict is meaningless. Without evidence or shame or pause, they assert that this is a politically motivated attempt to disrupt the presidential election initiated by the Biden administration, a “weaponization” of the justice system, and a frontal, personal attack on the presumed nominee of the Republican party. When the verdict came down, the two Kens exchanged texts - and that prompted Kemp to write his seventh letter to Senator John Thune, who joined in the chorus of Republican politicians to add to the spin. The two Kens affirm together that the time has come to tell the truth about the fitness of the Republican nominee. Fong draws on several articles that make a powerful, accurate, and compelling case. SHOW NOTES
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NOTE: According to a 2014 National Science Foundation survey, 26% of Americans believe the sun revolves around the Earth. The survey also found that only 74% of participants knew that the Earth orbits the sun, and only 48% knew that humans evolved from earlier species of animals.
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With the verdict declared to the world, Ken calls Betsey in for an unscheduled Beach Talk. This relatively brief conversation recounts the moment the news came to them both: the 45th President is guilty of all 34 counts - a unanimous decision of the twelve jurors after five grueling weeks of testimony. At long last, there is accountability. The two compare and contrast the moment the O.J. Simpson verdict was announced in 1994. Republican Trump supporters (including those who the former President has trashed) were quick to flood the media with bogus claims - “witch hunt,” “partisan,” “miscarriage of justice” etc., etc. It prompted Ken to write an open letter to Senator John Thune (shared on Substack) who joined the chorus with an unfortunate Tweet. Ken’s plea is for supporters of the presumed Republican candidate to think hard about their loyalty - the character and fitness of their candidate. Ken and Betsey agree. The prize for Greatest Liar Of All Time (GLOAT) does not belong to witness Michael Cohen, but the clear winner would be Mr. Trump - the now-convicted felon.
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Ken welcomes writer, teacher, preacher and justice advocate, Jim Wallis. Rev. Wallis’ new book, The False White Gospel: Rejecting Christian Nationalism, Reclaiming True Faith, and Refounding Democracy is getting high marks and a wide reading. It’s a timely and prophetic challenge in an era of polarization and worse, the advancement in America of what Jim calls an heretical version of The Gospel. Wallis calls this a “Bonhoeffer moment.” Silence is not an option. Ken and Jim reminisce over their days together at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School where they both earned a Master of Divinity degree. The famed Carl F. H. Henry influenced them both. In 1973, Henry and Wallis framed The Chicago Declaration along with other prominent evangelical signatories, a document that rings true to this very day. Jim has authored more than a dozen books. He is founder and served as chief editor of Sojourner’s Magazine. Today, he holds the prestigious Chair in Faith and Justice at Georgetown University in Washington DC named for his friend Bishop Desmund Tutu. In a wide-ranging conversation, they talk about Wallis’ journey since those seminary days, putting him in the center of the Civil Rights movement, appearing over the years as a regular on CNN, MSNBC, The Today Show, and many other major outlets as a Social Action alternative to the infamous Religious Right. Ken asks Jim why he still considers himself an “evangelical.” Jim shares inside stories about his many friends - Ron Sider, Ron Dellums, Howard Thurman, John Lewis, Barack Obama, Jamie Raskin and many more. SHOW NOTES
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Laura Bullard on Vox, suggests that the UMC tells us something about America. Recently, the denomination voted, by policy, to be fully inclusive of the LGBTQ+ community, eliminating any and all restrictions regarding membership, leadership in the church and ordination for clergy roles. The vote tallied in at 479 to 203 in favor of the historic change. Bullard posits that in America, most of the population would agree - and yet, in conservative Christian churches and denominations, there remains clear and stubborn opposition - often rooted in a reference to “Biblical Authority.” The two Kens - Ken Fong and Ken Kemp, reflect on their own journey - a change of mind and heart. They celebrate with the majority of the UMC - but recognize the new “Mason Dixon Line” that, like slavery and the Civil War, has triggered an exodus from liberal “mainline” churches. They have flocked to conservative “evangelical” churches that stake their claim on their myopic understanding of their 2,000-year-old sacred text that has created a crushing polarization - at a monstrous cost. This “controversy” has taken an enormous toll in broken lives, broken families, and split churches - not to mention the heavy cost of legal battles, raging denominational splits, massive wasted expenditures and endless arguments over real estate. Ken and Ken share their lament; but also their hope - that folks will take time to think again. The rewards are many. SHOW NOTES
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After comparing notes on Mother’s Day, Ken and Betsey dive into Ken’s most recent Substack. Bart Ehrman, a fellow graduate of Ken’s Bible School, gave up his Christian faith over the problem of evil. He’s not alone. Theologian Thomas Oord has written a book that addresses the problem. He proposes that we focus not on an Omnipotent (all-powerful) God but on a God of Love. Betsey shares her personal crisis of faith as she watched the Twin Towers fall on 9/11. Then they turn to the headlines: the scheduled Biden/Trump debates and the criminal trial in Manhattan. When Trump’s Vice Presidential hopefuls showed up en masse for a press conference in which they parroted the former President’s grievances word for word, the nation got a preview of things to come. Ken calls out Senator John Thune for his support of Kari Lake. Finally, Betsey shares her Sunday morning experience in a Progressive Episcopalian Church on the north shore of Chicago. SHOW NOTES
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Today, Ken shares his most recent Substack post. You'll find the full text here.
Amipotence over Omnipotence - Love over Control
A fellow graduate of the Moody Bible Institute, Dr. Bart Ehrman, when he explains why he is no longer a Christian, points to the problem of theodicy. After years of academic study of the Christian Bible, for Ehrman, it was the problem of evil that pushed him right over the line. Like me, you know the conundrum - how can a God of love and absolute power co-exist with pervasive, inescapable evil? There were plenty of reasons for Ehrman to turn away from his evangelical Christian faith - but theodicy did him in.
Continue reading...
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John Jay Alvaro is Lead Pastor of the historic First Baptist Church of Pasadena. A friend of the Center for Restorative Justice, John Jay opened the door for the Center to move their offices into the church facility. The website puts it this way: “First Baptist Pasadena is a passionate, diverse, quirky, and kind congregation. We know that God loves this world, so we love fiercely, too. Spend some time among us and you will see what we mean.” When Ken and Betsey Newenhuyse visited the church with their friend Ken Fong (who is an active member), they came to appreciate the accuracy of that description. In this conversation held in John Jay’s distinctive office at the church, the two explore John Jay’s experience at Duke Divinity School and how he became the lead pastor. They review his little booklet titled “Ordinary Theology” (The Bible, God, Jesus, Eschatology) and how John Jay led the church to become fully inclusive. The website posts the question: MY STORY AND IDENTITY IS…COMPLEX. WILL THERE BE ROOM FOR ALL OF ME AT THIS CHURCH? Answer - “We are a fully inclusive church, so the simple answer is Yes(!) … Membership/leadership is not contingent on sexuality, gender, race, income, or doctrinal minutia.” Ken prompted John Jay to tell his story - a story we all need to hear. SHOW NOTES
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Ken welcomes back historian and author Michael Jimenez, the History Department Chair at Vanguard University in Southern California. He has published several articles focussing on the iconic United Farm Workers Union organizer from the Civil Rights era in the 1960s and 70s. He believes that Cesar Chavez should be considered the Latinex Martin Luther King. Like King, Chavez’s life and work are rooted in his deep and abiding Christian faith. Jimenez joins with his friend and colleague, Dr. Robert Chao Romero (UCLA professor and former guest on the podcast) in advancing the story of Christians who have influenced social change - confronting injustice and opening the door for equal access, better working conditions, increased wages, and advancing human dignity. Ken and Mike discuss the influences on Chavez’s life including MLK, Thomas Merton, Dorothy Day, Ralph Abernathy, Coretta Scott King, and Robert F. Kennedy. When Chavez’s fast almost ended his life, RFK made a personal visit as he campaigned for President in the 1968 election. They shared communion. It ended Cesar’s fast, but just one month later, an assassin took Kennedy’s life the very night he celebrated his California victory. Michael shares his take on the Black Panther Party and the more recent Black Lives Matter movement. Michael is a thoughtful scholar and committed Christian. SHOW NOTES
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Betsey returns to her home on the north side of Chicago. She and Ken reminisce over her 3rd Annual trek to Southern California. Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, surprises the nation and the world as he stands up to the Freedom Caucus (led by Marjorie Taylor Green, Matt Gaetz, and their Republican friends). He garners bi-partisan support releasing necessary and long-delayed funding for Ukraine, Israel, and humanitarian aid for Gaza. Meanwhile, the former president stews in a Manhattan courtroom as the former editorial chief at the National Enquirer details his seedy support strategies - catch and kill, fake reports about his opponents, burying any embarrassing stories, and an abundance of puff pieces. The jury listens in. Betsey abruptly chides Ken for a rare use of profanity. The conversation takes a hard right turn - to the rituals of faith communities that bring meaning, hope, and joy.
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Award-winning author, journalist, and fellow podcaster Brian T. Kaylor joins Ken to talk about his soon-to-be-released (June 6, 2024) book, Baptizing America: How Mainline Protestants Helped Build Christian Nationalism. Brian adds a significant contribution to the discussion about the pervasive Christian Nationalism so prevalent today - the movement that became highly visible in the January 6th assault on our nation’s Capitol. It’s a little-discussed fact that the foundation for Christian Nationalism was laid by the “Seven Sisters” - the mainline denominations that far and away dominated the American religious scene before the explosion of evangelical denominations in the 1960s and 70s. Brian Kaylor asserts that despite its spurious claim, “Christian Nationalism isn’t Christian.” Ken and Brian unpack this thesis and review his well-researched, compelling book. They discuss Robert Bellah’s “Civil Religion” and the prescient warnings from Paul Tillich and H. Richard Niebuhr. Other topics include The National Prayer Breakfast, The Family, St. John’s Episcopal Church (“The President’s Church”), the National Cathedral, and traditional hymnology (including the prolific hymns written by Fanny Crosby). All of this has culminated in MAGA Trumpism and the complete takeover of the Republican Party. The American Flag and the Christian Flag have been standards in mainline denominational churches throughout out history - the Confederate Flag, too. Kaylor draws on Greg Boyd’s Myth of a Christian Nation to underscore the vast difference between the biblical notion of the Kingdom of God and America as the New Israel. SHOW NOTES
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Andy Wells returns to the podcast with an update on his popular book, Tried to be Straight. The first two-part interview with Andy has been one of the most popular BWM episodes to date. In that episode, Andy shares his journey growing up in church (All Saints Episcopal Church and Lake Avenue Congregational Church both in Pasadena, CA) where he served in leadership roles - and on to college and graduate school where he earned a Master of Arts in Christian Apologetics at Biola University. After struggling for decades with his identity - including association with the now defunct Exodus International and “reparative therapy” - he tells his “coming out” story. Andy remains a committed Christian and dedicated student and teacher of the Bible. Today’s episode gets us current. Because of his book, Andy has counseled countless others in the LGBTQ+ community who struggle with their own identity, parents whose children have “come out,” and Christians who maintain a moral objection to non-hetero sexuality but want to maintain a positive relationship with everyone. Andy has been invited to speak and share his book with groups who have shared their appreciation and help. Andy endorses high-impact groups like Free Mom Hugs and Real Momma Bears. He shares his new book project designed to give language that builds bridges rather than walls. This is an important interview you will not want to miss - and then share it with your friends. SHOW NOTES
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Ken Fong and Betsey Newenhuyse join Ken Kemp for a special edition - The Two Kens and Beach Talk. Betsey made her third annual trip to California and the studios of the Beached White Male podcast. The three friends join together to interact over their weekend and a conversation is triggered by an unlikely Atlantic article (April 3, 2024, Issue) they all read - The True Cost of The Church Going Bust by self-described agnostic, Derek Thompson. In it, Thompson writes, “More than one-quarter of Americans now identify as atheists, agnostics, or religiously ‘unaffiliated,’ according to a new survey of 5,600 U.S. adults by the Public Religion Research Institute. This is the highest level of non-religiosity in the poll’s history.” The two Kens and Betsey discuss their church experience, especially the Sunday they spent together at the First Baptist Church of Pasadena (Ken Fong’s home church). Thompson argues, as a non-believer, that something profound is lost should communities of faith disappear in America. This episode has been released on both this podcast and Asian America The Ken Fong Podcast.
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Dr. Peter Enns returns to the podcast to discuss his new book Curve-ball - When Your Faith Takes Turns You Never Saw Coming* or How I Stumbled and Tripped My Way to Finding a Bigger God. Pete admits it's the longest title in the history of publishing. The popular professor, author (see show notes for his many other books), and podcaster (The Bible for Normal People) drops his guard like never before sharing his spiritual and intellectual journey from his days as an aspiring baseball player to progressive Christian thinker. "Wrestling with God and Scripture is very old and completely normal. Actually, it's God-activated," he says. In reviewing the book, Ken and Pete talk about Noah, Jonah, and Jesus as archetypes in the struggle. Richard Rohr, David Bentley Hart, Thomas Oord and Rachel Held Evans get honorable mention as guides. Evolution is a major "curveball" for many Christians. Pete is especially interested in the chaos and "weirdness" of physics and quantum mechanics, all of which have opened Pete's mind and heart to a much bigger and more profound notion of God. While Pete avoids the clichéd use of the over-used and misappropriated descriptor, "deconstruction," he traces a normal, natural, and healthy evolution in our understanding of faith and our relationship to the God of the Universe. SHOW NOTES
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Author, pastor, educator, counselor and storyteller Jeffrey Munroe shares his new book, Telling Stories in the Dark: Finding Healing and Hope in Sharing our Sadness, Grief, Trauma, and Pain. Jeff draws on a lifetime of ministry in churches, universities, and Young Life both in the USA and Europe. He’s concluded that spiritual health is not so much about right beliefs as it is about telling our stories in an environment of safety and affirmation. In a chapter entitled, “I’ll Go First,” he shares the traumatic moment, just a month before his planned wedding, when his fiance with no warning experienced a sudden, massive stroke. As a young man, he got very little support. He was told to “be strong.” “There’s a purpose.” You need to hear this story. It’s the age-old problem of theodicy - how can a loving God allow unimaginable tragedy? In a wide-ranging conversation, Jeff draws on significant sources like Bessel VanderKolk, Frederick Beuchner, and Richard Rohr. In sharing some very personal stories, he deals with issues like terminal cancer, racial disparity in health care, gun violence, white privilege, Alzheimer's and suicide. In each, he applies a strong message from the vulnerable writer, Frederick Buechner who introduced the notion of “the stewardship of pain.” SHOW NOTES
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On the 56th Anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King, Ken shares his final in the Substack series - Biblical Authority. On this day, we remember the tragedy and the legacy of the Civil Rights champion. While the Bible has been and is today abused and weaponized, there’s a beauty we dare not miss. MLK illustrates the point.
Ken’s Substack Page - Biblical Authority Part IV - A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever
From my book My Creed: An Unauthorized Rewrite of the Generally Accepted Evangelical Doctrinal Statement: Reflections on Authentic Belief by Kenneth Kemp (2020) Kindle and hard copy available on Amazon
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Ken welcomes historian, author, and media commentator Martyn Whittock from his home across the Pond just outside London. Martyn read Ken’s Substack series on Biblical Authority and reached out with some comments. It prompted this lively conversation - and led to another focus: Martyn’s article recently published in the UK - How US Evangelicals Could Affect the Entire World. Whittock, a licensed minister in the Church of England, is a self-described “Evangelical.” For years, he has been a student of American Evangelicalism. He gives us a fascinating insight into the differences between our two countries: in America - the preponderance of MAGA Evangelicals, and in Britain - a very different sort of evangelical. Martyn expresses his deep concern over the prospect of a second term for the 45th President not only for the USA. He believes a second Trump Presidency will have an egregious adverse effect on Europe and the entire world. He explains this in considerable detail. Then, Ken asks Martyn about two recent appearances on British television as a history specialist. In the first, Martyn comments on the recent terror attack in Moscow that killed over one hundred in a large theater. In the second, he is asked about the Princess of Wales and the conspiracy theories that surrounded her hospital stay and absence from public life. You can see those clips by clicking on the links. SHOW NOTES
Martyn Whittock on British TV: CBN LIVE on The Princess of Wales | Talk TV with Trisha Goddard on the Moscow Terror Attack (11-22 minutes into the program)
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In honor of Ken's new Golden Retriever - Brandy., We welcome back Kristina Flanagan, retired psychotherapist, MSW, Vedic astrologer and graduate of Richard Rohr's Living School. At Kristina's invitation (after Ken invited himself!), Ken and Carolyn spent a few days in a beautiful casita on her property, a lovely expanse of New Mexico's rolling hills and meadows just south of Santa Fe. She, her architect, and contractor completed the pleasing structures just a few years ago, a place of retreat and renewal she calls "La Molina." Kristina shares her journey - from her undergraduate years at Stanford University to her focus on social work, therapy, Enneagram, and eight visits to India. More recently, she discovered the writings of Fr. Richard Rohr.
Kristina has served on the Boards of Directors at both the San Francisco and Santa Fe Operas. She is a lover of art - sculptures, paintings, and water features adorn La Molina at every turn. For more than a decade, her passion has been her horses. She is Chairman of the Board of a non-profit called A Chance of a Lifetime where she works closely with the organization's founders. They are authentic "horse-whisperers." The website says this: "Our environment fosters interaction and companionship with the herd where we build respect, trust, patience, empowerment, awareness, acceptance and vulnerability as we nurture a deeper experience of the horse–human relationship." Kristina relays her rich experience of building and living at La Molina. Ken is now a witness of how this extraordinary place transforms, heals, and awakens the spirit. SHOW NOTES
A Chance of a Lifetime Website
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Today, after some introductory remarks, Ken shares his most recent Substack post. It's time to sound the alarm.
Here's the post in its entirety - you may read along. (Ken's Substack Page)
Biblical Authority Part III
The Plan to Institute a “Biblical America” - Project 2025
If you’ve been following this series, you know that I have come to question the ubiquitous and dubious claim to “biblical authority.” From the earliest days of my connection with the evangelical church - as a student, a board member, an elder, a pastor, and as an observer - the Bible has been foundational first and foremost for just about everything else. From governance, to doctrine, to morality, to ethics, to community, to education, to business, to private life, to public life - if it’s not “biblical,” then it’s out of bounds.
It’s time to call the question.
If you haven’t identified as this brand of Christian, or if your tradition is some other strand of Christianity, or if you grew up in another religious tradition or no religion at all, then the whole notion of “biblical authority” will sound odd.
Because frankly, it is.
Most all religions will lay claim to a collection of sacred writings: a book or books that are set apart and give definition to beliefs or affirm faith. Christianity is no different. It’s The Bible. But these MAGA evangelicals, as we’ve come to know them, take it to another level.
Just this week, historian and author Kristin Kobes du Mez wrote a lengthy Substack essay on Project 2025. We’ve been hearing about Trump’s MAGA following and their plans for his first few months in office should he (God forbid) win back the White House. If you don’t know the name Stephen Miller, I suggest you do some homework - just Google him. He’s been Trump’s go-to speech writer and confidant from the beginning of his first term. Miller gave us the ghastly Trumpian theme: “American Carnage.” Throughout, he has been a primary architect in this very public blueprint to remake our country in line with MAGA worldview.
Kristin quotes PBS Newshour: “With a nearly 1,000-page ‘Project 2025’ handbook and an ‘army’ of Americans, the idea is to have the civic infrastructure in place on Day One to commandeer, reshape and do away with what Republicans deride as the ‘deep state’ bureaucracy, in part by firing as many as 50,000 federal workers.” And that’s not all: there will be mass deportations, invoking the “Insurrection Act,” and a whole host of draconian laws. Project 2025 has a web site tauting these plans. There are 100 right-wing organizations supporting this effort. A casual review of the endorsers will show you just how pervasive it is.
These same people have issued a “Statement on Christian Nationalism and the Gospel.” They are currently soliciting signatures. There are twenty articles outlining their conviction that C
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Lerone A. Martin, Ph.D. is Director of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute (MLKREI) and Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Stanford University. A prolific author, lecturer, and influencer, Dr. Martin discusses his most recent ground-breaking book, The Gospel of J. Edgar Hoover: How the FBI Aided and Abetted the Rise of Christian Nationalism with Ken. Thanks to a series of requests to and lawsuits against the FBI under the Freedom of Information Act, Martin has acquired a treasure trove of documents hidden for decades in the Bureau's file cabinets. This new biography of the man whose name became synonymous with the Federal Bureau of Investigation takes us into the up-until-now neglected religious and spiritual underpinnings of Hoover's life and mission. Of surprising interest to Ken, the book convincingly connects the dots between the lifelong FBI Director Hoover and evangelicalism's early champions: Billy Graham, Carl F. H. Henry, Dr. Nelson Bell, and Christianity Today. But the story Lerone Martin tells in his new book is much larger, exposing and expounding a virulent form of Christian Nationalism (Americanism) all the way back to the 1920s. Dr. Martin, whose academic career takes him from Oral Roberts University (first-year undergraduate and athlete), Anderson University (B.A.), Princeton Theological Seminary (M.Div.), and Emory University (Ph.D.), shares his personal journey as a minister and now professor and Director of the MLKREI at Stanford University. SHOW NOTES
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This is a brief supplement to Beach Talk #117 which included the title: The Pairing Nobody Wants. Last night changed that. Ken and Betsey connect the day after to review the historic speech that will live in the history books. It's a pairing of old guys - but the 81-year-old shows his mettle, his endurance, his passion, and his priorities. It's what our nation needs.
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Betsey, who has been a proud supporter of Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg since he ran for the presidency in 2020, would like to see him on the ballot again. Both Ken and Betsey share a deep appreciation for our aging President Joe Biden. His accomplishments are solid. He's a decent human being. His priorities are in line. But his approval ratings are a clear indicator that he is not inspiring America. Perhaps even more glaringly, his opponent's age shows, too. Ken and Betsey agree that the 45th President is unfit and dangerous, suffering a more and more public dementia. He must be defeated. There are some terrific candidates, including Secretary Pete. Nikki Haley's searing assessment of Donald Trump rings true. Ken and Betsey switch subjects to the Alabama ruling on IVF, and a Christian Nationalism that claims the Bible as its authority. They discuss the frequent assertion by the "Christian" right that apart from the Bible, there is no morality; no ethics. They review Ken's most recent Substack article on that subject. Show NotesKen's Substack | Become a Patron
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The Alabama Supreme Court has lit the fuse exploding into yet another level of controversy in our divided nation. It's not just the question of when life begins, but whether the religious convictions espoused by a few will be imposed as the law of the land on everyone else. The two Kens talk about how this development underscores the threat of Christian nationalism on our democratic way of life. It's an attempt to "colonize America." Fong shares his experience, both personal and pastoral, with in vitro fertilization (IVF). Kemp shares his viewing of the Rob Reiner documentary God and Country. It's another lively exchange between the two podcasters - both former pastors. They give a shout-out to fellow podcaster Brad Onishi for his appearance on NPR's Fresh Air with Terry Gross. SHOW NOTES
Ken's Substack | Become a Patron | The Two Kens With Brad Onishi
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When Ken's Substack article (The Big Beautiful Wall) appeared on Philip Yancey's popular blog (Hole in the Wall), among the many comments was a grieving father who shared the tragic loss of his 19-year-old-son to fentanyl poisoning. Ken reached out to Mark Bodnarczuk to hear more of a story that would underscore the tragic crisis facing our nation. Mark's academic pedigree took him from the Nazarene tradition to Wheaton College, the University of Chicago, and on to Harvard. He currently works for Stanford University in the director’s office of the SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory as an institutional program manager. Mark has written a book (to be released this summer) telling his son's story in detail - the all-too-easy access to counterfeit pills and fentanyl poisoning. Mark also shares how the sudden, indescribable loss has changed him - leaving him with a new understanding of his own faith, the power of forgiveness, and a grace that sustains. In this touching conversation, Mark shares the journey of his extraordinary son Thomas, the otherwise ordinary evening on the Internet that took his life, the source of the illegal, toxic drug, and his encounter with the perpetrator who would face criminal charges. Mark also encourages every American to be aware, engaged, and alerted to the need to put an end to this deadly crisis. SHOW NOTES
Ken's Substack | Philip Yancey's Blog Post - Hole in the Wall
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Today we re-air Ken's conversation with Tim Whitaker, creator of The New Evangelicals. Ken begins with some commentary on the new Rob Reiner documentary, God and Country.
Ken welcomes fellow sojourner and podcaster, Tim Whitaker. Tim is "Creator and Facilitator" of The New Evangelicals, a highly popular and widely followed non-profit that sponsors podcasts and commentary that appear regularly on YouTube, Instagram, and TikToc. His productions include everything from short spots to full-length interviews, In his conversation with Ken, Tim tells his story - from home-schooled kid to drummer in a worship band to sold-out Jesus-follower to high-energy podcast host. As his view of the gospel expanded, he began to resist evangelical Trumpism and then consider the validity of Pro-Choice, then develop LGBTQ sensibilities. As a consequence, Tim's lead pastor ceremoniously dismissed him from his cherished role as lead drummer in the worship band. That moment triggered a period he calls "deconstruction." Tim brings a truthful and direct challenge to an evangelicalism that has become a voting block for right-wing political causes, election denial, conspiracy theories, Christian Nationalism, the Trump cult, and a distortion of what Tim believes to be biblical Christianity.
Ken and Tim have interviewed many of the same influencers, authors, and activists including Brad Onishi, Lisa Sharon Harper, Kristen Kobes Du Mez, Pete Enns, David Gushee, Jemar Tisby, Diana Butler Bass, and Ben Cremer. Tim has also welcomed other notables to his podcast such as Anthea Butler, Matthew Taylor, Katherine Stewart, Tripp Fuller, Katelyn Beaty, Sam Perry, Andrew Seidel, Dante Stewart, and Dr. Russell Moore. Tim calls out people like Charlie Kirk, Sean Feucht, Candace Owens, and John MacArthur among others as perpetrators of false narratives that have misled many.
It's a lively conversation you won't want to miss.
SHOW NOTES - Including links to Tim and THE NEW EVANGELICALS
Original Air Date: April 2023
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Ken welcomes back essayist, teacher, guidance counselor, and ordained minister Nathaniel Manderson from his home in Boston. Last Summer, Nate took thirty days to walk the 500 mile Camino do Santiago pilgrimage tradition says was taken by St. James, the Apostle. It's the same journey memorialized by the Emilio Estevez film starring his father, Martin Sheen called The Way. Nate shares his remarkable journey - the prompting to go, the people he met, lessons along the way, and the intensely emotional climax that final day as he entered the Cathedral de Santiago de Compostela (consecrated in 1211 C.E.) Just a few days before their conversation, Nate's most recent opinion piece was published in the Boston Globe entitled Democrats: Let Me (Re)Introduce You to the Working Class. Even with his advanced academic degrees, he considers himself a member of that working class. Nate is a contributor to the popular news site SALON. His author page makes the introduction:
Nathaniel Manderson was educated at a conservative seminary, trained as a minister, ordained through the American Baptist Churches USA and guided by liberal ideals. Throughout his career he has been a pastor, a career counselor, an academic adviser, a high school English teacher and an advocate for first-generation and low-income students, along with a paper delivery man, a construction worker, a FedEx package handler and whatever else he could do to take care of his family.
SHOW NOTES | Become a Patron | Ken's Substack Page
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Ken and Betsey connect for another lively talk on their imaginary beach. Ken shares his encounter with the atmospheric river, which leads to the deluge of headlines over the 14th Amendment, our aging candidates for President, and the collapse of the bi-partisan border bill. The conversation was recorded before the Superbowl, but Betsey predicted a Chiefs victory and stellar performance from Mahomes and Kelce. They comment on the "Swift Effect." Betsey's interim pastor challenges her congregation to use caution regarding those weaponized "clobber passages" in the Bible. She addresses how our language and policies concerning the LGBTQ community is a prime cause of young people abandoning the church. Ken and Betsey review the Grammys and their favorite moments.
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Brenda Renderos and Lamont Hartman join Ken for a lively discussion around the illusive dream of reconciliation in our neighborhoods, politics, and churches. Lamont is the lead Pastor of Reconcile Church - a place for seekers, the disillusioned, and those who no longer relate to traditional places of worship. Brenda traveled with Ken on the Civil Rights Tour of the South and has worked along with him at the Center for Restorative Justice. She is a Certified Life Coach with a focus on spiritual direction. Brenda, Lamont and Ken affirm that a commitment to racial reconciliation is hard work - and our existing churches and institutions have fallen well short of facing our own complicity, leaving many feeling alienated and isolated. Lamont is a PhD candidate at San Francisco Theological Seminary. His dissertation focuses on the plight of pastors of color in historically, predominantly white churches. They finish with a lively review of Lamont's Orange County event on MLK Day. SHOW NOTES
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The southern border crisis, Gaza, and untenable beliefs prompt Kemp and Fong to cut loose in a lively discussion. The podcast allows these two retired former pastors to share their genuine convictions without fearing losing their employment. Kemp shares his experience at the opening in the "Big Beautiful Wall," near the small town of Jacumba featured in this week's edition of 60 Minutes. Current headlines reveal that the do-nothing Congress has failed again to act. Funding is desperately needed to bring relief to border agents, manage processing, and stem the tide of out-of-control crossings. Fong takes the conversation to Israel and the unfavorable response to Biden's support for the Netanyahu government's "overkill" in the Gaza war. The two Kens review some theological assumptions rooted in long-held beliefs that are indefensible today. Fong has been asked to address his views on heaven and hell with a group of retired ministers and missionaries - it opens up a free-wheeling review of the two Kens' theological journey on the subject. SHOW NOTES
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As the nation debates the border crisis, Ken reads his Substack post - The Big Beautiful Wall. Philip Yancey picked it up and with Ken's permission and a few edits posted it on his popular blog. It elicited many comments. As the congress heats up and the border gets clogged, Ken makes a strong appeal for an authentic partisanship that leads to solutions, without the vitriol.
Ken’s Substack Page | Philp Yancey’s Blog
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For a second time, Ken welcomes Rev. Ben Cremer to the podcast for Season 5. Ken starts by thanking Ben for that first interview, "Myths We Believe," which is far and away the most downloaded podcast of Ken's more than 300 episodes (exceeding the former first-place interview with Kristin Kobes Du Mez). Ben is a prolific author, just finishing up the manuscript of his first book. He has a big audience for his newsletter, which is delivered weekly on Sunday mornings. He calls it "Into The Gray." It's a resource of books, podcasts, and then a thoughtful essay of his own around important issues of the day. Ken chose three to discuss on this podcast - first, "A Troubling Conversation" highlighting the commonly held doctrine of Total Depravity. The second contemplates the common default answer when Christians encounter those who hold opposite views. They'll say, "Well, they aren't REAL Christians." The third addresses a spiritual discipline that is widely ignored in the traditions both Ben and Ken grew up in - lament. Ben brings fresh, sometimes provocative thinking to all three issues. Ken predicts that this conversation will be another that breaks records. SHOW NOTES
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Ken's Substact Page | Philip Yancey's Blog Site - Hole in the Wall
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On New Year's Day, Ken opened his email to find a long letter of gratitude for the podcast. It came from a person he'd never met. An emerging leader and Bible teacher, her world was shaken when many of the women in her organization's Bible study group and church became Trump supporters. Kristyn shares her faith journey from her early years raised by a single mother. After years of fertility treatment, she delivered the first of two children. At that time, she became a devoted Jesus-follower and serious Bible student. She emerged as a discussion leader for six years and then another seven years as a certified teaching leader (the weekly lecturer) in Bible Study Fellowship (BSF) in the Detroit area. BSF is a global organization drawing folks around the world into intense, in-depth study of the Bible. (Coincidentally, Ken's mother was also a Teaching Leader for BSF in the 70s and 80s.) Kristyn came to connect the strict rules and fundamentalist doctrine with a religious conservatism that fuels a toxic form of Trumpism, despite the clear contradictions. She felt alone and disconnected until she found resources (including books and podcasts) that helped her understand - there are many of us recovering fundamentalists out there. It's a sweet conversation that affirms faith, life, and genuine friendship.
SHOW NOTES | Contact Kristyn Secory | Become a Patron
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Leah Rothstein, author and activist, discusses her book Just Action: How to Challenge Segregation Enacted Under the Color of Law. Her father, Richard Rothstein, wrote the award-winning New York Times Bestseller The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America (2018)which Bill Gates named as one of his "Amazing Books" of the year. Rothstein challenges the notion, or myth as they would say, that segregation in American society is accidental or a simple preference. He documents how legislation and lawmakers intentionally created the segregation we know today that has had adverse economic consequences for all Americans. Leah took her father's challenge to write a book filled with ideas about how we can encourage action toward justice and equality in our institutions and neighborhoods. Leah was the keynote speaker at the Greenline Housing event that addresses the wealth disparity in real estate that continues to this day. SHOW NOTES
GREENLINE HOUSING interview with Founder/Director Jasmine Shupper
Ken's Substack
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It's a New Year - Betsey's resolution opens up a lively conversation around the heavy consequences of this political season. They share a beautiful letter from a new listener about the meaning of the podcast in her life - recognizing that many of us need supportive friendships as our country slips deeper into divisiveness and conflict. Joe Biden's campaign is coming into focus. The former President fights his battles in court but pulls ahead as his party's likely candidate despite the opposition. Bradley Cooper's performance as Leonard Bernstein in the new film Maestro triggered Ken's latest Substact essay. Betsey shares her thoughts. The two vow to do all they can to fend off the serious threat to our democracy. SHOW NOTES
Follow Betsey on X (Formerly Twitter) | Ken's Substack | Become a Patron
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We launch the new year with Osahon Obazuaye - the presidential election year looms large. Osahon shares his return to pastoral ministry - this time in a church populated by a significant percentage of immigrants. Ken and Osahon discuss a book explored by Tim Alberta in his bestselling book, The Kingdom the Power and the Glory. Brian Zahnd raises a key question - how does the biblical reference to Babylon play out in our current political climate? Alberta considers Zahnd to be a hopeful thinker. Osahon shares his most recent take on Charlie Kirk and Eric Metaxas. A new documentary is coming soon to amplify Metaxas' version of Bonheoffer, which Ken and Osahon consider well off the mark. Osahon reflects on the Obama legacy and issues a chilling warning of what just may happen in November. Ken responds with the challenge that we must do all we can to avoid another four years of chaos and rancor. SHOW NOTES
Brian Zahnd, Postcards from Babylon | Become a Patron
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Rev. Ben Cremer, Campus Pastor at Cathedral of the Rockies in Boise, Idaho, has a social presence that is getting a significant and growing response. Ken stumbled across his lengthy essay Ben called, "Myths We Believe" in which he details things he was taught to embrace, but he's had to unlearn. The article beautifully tracks Ken's journey, too. Ben was Home-schooled (K-12) in "a deeply conservative environment in rural Idaho - as far right politically and theologically as you can imagine." Today, he pastors a satellite campus of a progressive, affirming United Methodist congregation in a conspicuously red state. Just recently, Ben appeared on the local ABC Affiliate (Channel 7) in politics and religion piece in which a local television journalist gave extensive interviews to two Pastors: Blaine Conzatti and Ben Cremer. Conzatti, a very conservative pastor (The Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches) and political activist (President of Idaho Family Policy Center), and Ben. Ken and Ben unpack his long journey from those early home-school years (with a curriculum rooted in the "Christian Identity" movement that denied the Holocaust, argued that slavery was good because it introduced Africans to Christianity, and separation of the races is God's design, and much more) and on through college and graduate school where he learned to read books and pursue his curiosity. His passion for ministry took him through seminary and into a small, traditional, conservative church that mirrored Idaho's deep red conservatism. Lonely, underpaid and full of questions, Ben slipped into a dark spiritual depression. In this vulnerable and open interview, he tells his story of recovery, redemption and transformation - finding a faith that is open, fresh and alive. SHOW NOTES
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As Ken closes out Season 4 and welcomes in the New Year and the new Season, he shares the top podcasts for the year. He also identifies and reviews the top seven books from the year's reading. To conclude, he reads his Substack essay, Universalism.
The Top Five Podcast Downloads for 2023 -
Ken's Top Seven Books for 2023
Ken's Substack Page | Become a Patron | Universalism on Substack
Ken's Complete list of books for 2023
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Christmas is here. Ken and Betsey banter over the challenge of finding just the right gift. Ken shares his plans to visit a remote camp where migrants found a gap in the Big Beautiful Wall (designed to KEEP THEM OUT) that separates the U.S. from Mexico. Kate Cox, the pregnant woman forced to file a lawsuit to get the health care she needs in a state that has some of the most severe restrictions on women's health, faces an agonizing public fight. Brittany Watts, too. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton symbolizes the cruelty and harm unleashed in our post-Roe era. The famed film producer Rob Reiner is about to release a documentary critiquing the rise of Christian Nationalism featuring such notables as Russell Moore, David French, Kristin Kobes Du Mez, Andrew Whitehead, Jemar Tisby, Skye Jethani, and Phil Vischer. Mary's Song sets the stage for the season's celebration.
Ken's Substack: The Big Beautiful Wall | Become a Patron
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The two Kens celebrate the news that Ken F has rediscovered his high school sweetheart. On a recent episode of Asian America the Ken Fong Podcast, Fong shared his budding affection for Doreen with his audience. Kemp shares in the celebration and happiness as Ken and Doreen begin their sweet courtship. As we approach the holiday season, Fong asks Kemp to read his most recent Substack essay, The Baby and the Bathwater. They reflect on the version of Christmas they experienced in their formative years. It centered on an apologetic that made their faith primary - with an assumption of superiority. Kemp shares an interview (Jamin Coller) on his podcast where he learned about a Pastor-Dad who rejected his adult son (and his family) because he expressed his doubts as he entered into a phase of "deconstruction." All too often, a literalist, toxic, fundamentalist religion tragically alienates family members. Kemp shares what he has learned from Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung about religious symbol, myth and archetype. While the arrival of a child for some can be burdensome on many levels, for the Two Kens, the arrival of children and grandchildren evokes the same wonder, promise, and joy we witness in the Christmas scene we call The Nativity. SHOW NOTES
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Ken welcomes author, pastor, professor, and advocate Dr. Troy Jackson to talk about his new book Living Undivided: Loving Courageously for Racial Healing and Justice (To be released January 2024). Along with Co-Author Chuck Mingo, Dr. Jackson tells the story of an initiative designed to "bring people together to learn from each other with honesty, integrity, and vulnerability, moving them toward awareness, through agitation, and into action." Troy tells his personal story, raised in Anderson Indiana by a high school teacher/basketball coach. His teams were racially integrated. Troy formed deep friendships, but in college, he came to understand that as open as he thought he was, whiteness remained woven into his own worldview. Called to ministry, Troy earned an M. Div. at Princeton Theological Seminary, where he was introduced to theologian James Cone. It set the trajectory of his pastoral work, launched in urban Cincinnati, Ohio. Longing to learn more, he enrolled in a post-graduate program at the University of Kentucky. He took a deep dive into the historical papers of Dr. Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement. His doctoral dissertation emerged out of that study. When he met Chuck Mingo, the two of them partnered in a project called Undivided - focussing on racial history, reconciliation, and the biblical mandate to build bridges - to pursue justice, repentance, and restoration.
SHOW NOTES | Ken's Substack | Become a Patron
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Ken welcomes blogger, musician, and author Jamin Coller. In his soon-to-be-released book, Dear Evangelical, Letters From A Reluctant Deconstructionist, Jamin leaves no stone unturned. Raised in a fundamentalist church pastored by his father, Jamin was in church his entire life. It was naturally expected that he become a career pastor and worship leader. Plagued by private doubts that emerged from years of homeschooling that included Bill Gothard curricula (cf. The Duggar Family), a purity culture rooted in Josh Harris's bestseller (I Kissed Dating Good-Bye), Jamin asked one too many questions. His parents and his church informed him that he was banished from both the family and the Kingdom. On today's podcast, he shares his personal story with Ken: both the hardship and his journey into a healthy place that has brought new friends, new energy and new purpose. Jamin inspired Ken's latest Substack - The Baby and the Bathwater. SHOW NOTES
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Betsey loved the two episodes with David Dark - and the heart of an activist. Betsey comments on the embarrassing confession that both Dr. Dark and Ken went through a Rush Limbaugh phase. The two of them made an exception and tuned into Fox News (which generally is off-limits) to take in some of the "debate" between Ron DeSantis (Florida) and Gavin Newsom (California). Tim Alberta's new book is getting lots of attention - - The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism. It triggers a conversation around the ongoing support among "evangelicals" for Donald Trump. For this popular journalist (Alberta writes for The Atlantic, The Wall Street Journal, Vanity Fair, Politico, and more), it's personal. Raised by an evangelical pastor, Alberta has keen insight into the interplay between politics and religion. Ken and Betsey are getting ready for the Holiday Season.
SHOW NOTES | Ken's Substack Page
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Ken welcomes back professor, author, and activist Dr. David Dark to discuss his new book, We Become What We Normalize. David shares the recent tragedy on Belmont University's campus in the shooting of the popular freshman, accomplished musician Jillian Ludwig . He tells us about the impact of this horrible incident on his students. The entire nation took note - raising the issue of gun control. David asks a provocative question: "Am I responsible for the lies that other people voice in my presence unchallenged?" When we are silent, we normalize. The conversation picks up Part I - discussing David's assertion that all of us -because we are human - are "religious." There exists good and bad/toxic and healthy religion. We must apply critical thinking to discern. Dr. Dark agrees with Christopher Hitchens that there is a form of religion that "poisons everything." To illustrate, they consider a diverse collection of individuals including Colin Kaepernick, Howard Thurman, Rush Limbaugh, and Donald Trump. In conclusion, David shares his long-time work in the Tennessee prison system - regrettably, a for-profit enterprise.
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Ken welcomes Judy Peterson, also known as "The Walking Pastor." In 2019, Judy's eleven-year tenure as Campus Pastor at a highly respected Christian university (North Park U. in Chicago) came to an unwelcome end. She was terminated because she officiated a same-sex wedding. Earlier in her working career, while she tended bar in a popular tavern, she had a powerful spiritual encounter. That faith came into focus as she set out on a spiritual journey. She walked across the United States (from the Pacific to the Atlantic) in a quest to know what it means to "walk with God." A graduate of North Park University, she earned both a B.A. and an M. Div. The crisis of her firing tested her faith. While she understands and appreciates the process of deconstruction, she prefers to call it composting. Today, she is founder and President of Haecceitas Inc. designed "to create spaces where those who feel disconnected from their faith might (re)discover a God who delights in each and everyone making a space for themselves in close proximity to the Divine." Judy shares her personal story of awakenings, inviting us all to join in the dance. SHOW NOTES
Judy Peterson on Twitter | The RNS Article from 2019
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Next week, we celebrate Thanksgiving. Ken and Betsey share what they are grateful for, including over one hundred Beach Talks. They return to their conversation around the Israeli/Palestinian War - noting the speech by Senator Jon Ossoff (D-GA) on the floor of the Senate. The Jewish politician captures the tension between the rights of Israel to engage terrorism and the plight of non-combatant Palestinians in Gaza who suffer horribly. Netanyahu is losing support from all sides. Robert P. Jones wrote about the dangers of hate speech, becoming worse as the former President makes his run for the Republican nomination for 2024. The two friends end with a discussion of the meaning of prayer in both these troubled times and the arrival of Thanksgiving Day.
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Today Ken reads an essay he posted on his new Substack Account.
"OK. So I’m admitting it right from the top. I loved this movie. It’s got the same title as this post, but it’s not Ken - it’s Margaret. Based on the beloved 1970s novel by Judy Blume, well, the film got me. I’ve watched it twice. Maybe I’ll watch it again. Maybe you’ve read the book.
I know, I know. I’m a sappy old white guy..."
Are You There God, It's Me, Ken
Watch the Movie | Read the Book
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Ethicist, author and professor, Dr. David Gushee returns to the podcast to talk about his new book: Defending Democracy from its Christian Enemies. They begin talking about what many have called "the Nones," but Gushee calls Conscientious Objectors like Tim Whitaker and Pete Briscoe. (Ken includes himself.) Many of those "Nones" - those who claim to have no religious affiliation - actually find themselves in moral conflict with a religion that has violated its own moral standards. For Gushee (who is a committed Christian) democracy must be defended. Too many Christians are actively and aggressively attacking our democratic institutions all in the name of their God and their Bible. This is not new, and not limited to the United States. Dr. Gushee traces the challenges to democracy in France, Germany, Russia, Poland, Hungary and Brazil. He recognizes Christian Nationalism as a threat but prefers his own label: Authoritarian Reactionary Christianity. Adolph Hitler, Vladimir Putin, Viktor Orbán, and Jair Bolsonaro all invite comparisons to Trumpism in the United States. Ken and David talk about characters and players like Pastor Greg Locke, firebrand Tucker Carlson, theologian James Cone and Gushee's mentor, Dr. Glen Stassen. The good professor draws from Baptist history, the Black Church and the biblical teaching around Covenant to invite us all to defend the democracy that guarantees our freedom to exercise our conscience in practicing the religion (or non-religion) of our choice. SHOW NOTES
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Join Ken and Betsey in a review of current headlines. Betsey begins with a review of Ken's compelling conversation with David Dark. Congress finally has a Speaker of the House. Fears that Jim Jordan might get the gavel left them relieved when Jordan was defeated after grueling three votes. But the new Republican Speaker of the House, a relative unknown up until now, may appear to be a more pleasant, civil version of what may have been. On further inspection, Johnson's ultra-conservative track record reveals that he is an election denier and a pernicious Trump supporter who vehemently opposes same-sex marriage and abortion rights. He and Jordan have been close friends and champions of the extreme right. According to Mike Johnson, it's all rooted in a "biblical world view." Ken and Betsey take issue. Hate crimes are on the rise as narratives clash both in the Israeli/Palestinian War and on the floor of Congress.
Martyn Whittock's Review in the Washington Post | Ken's Interview with MW
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Ken welcomes back author, journalist, and poet, Rick Pidcock. Recently, Andy Stanley sponsored an event called the Unconditional Conference designed specifically for parents whose children "come out" as Queer or LGBTQ. He expressed his deep concern for the ways in which the church has been complicit in creating family conflict that causes parents to choose their church and their theology over their children. On the popular online site Baptist News Global, Rick published two in-depth articles addressing the conference and the conservative critics who surfaced attacking Stanley for embracing this marginalized community. These critics include Al Mohler, Mark Driscoll, R.C. Sproul, and Focus on the Family. Ken and Rick share their own journeys in changing their minds. Rick traces much of the conversation around father wounds. Rick has also written about the crisis of the war between Israel and Palestine. SHOW NOTES
Criticism of Andy Stanley Rooted in Father Wounds, by Rick Pidcock
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When Wheaton College released it's anticipated Report on Race, there was a glaring omission. A comprehensive self-study over the history of the college had an arbitraty cut-off date of the year 2000. While it was an attempt to be transparent, vulnerable, and forthright over past mistakes, the report failed to address the painful departure of the first African American woman tenured professor, Dr. Larycia Hawkins. Ken reached out to Professor David Dark of Belmont University, an outspoken advocate of Dr. Hawkins and her work. They discuss the Wheaton episode. A very popular professor, Dr. Dark is active on social media and highly regarded for his books, his lectures and social commentary. Ken and David cover many topics including the Nashville political scene. Dr. Dark has a personal connection to The Covenant School, where a mass shoting gained national attention and introduced us to the "Tennessee Three" - legislators who made "Good Trouble" on the floor of the legislature demanding a debate on gun control. Ken asked David to continue this lively conversation in a part two, scheduled for next week where they will continue the conversation, including his book Life's too Short to Pretend you aren't Religious. SHOW NOTES
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Ken welcomes author and advocate Liz Cooledge Jenkins to talk about her new book: Nice Churchy Patriarchy: Reclaiming Women’s Humanity from Evangelicalism. When Liz went off to Stanford University, she connected with a group of "Jesus Followers" who were part of an evangelical global campus ministry. In time, she believed she was "called" to pastoral ministry. After graduation, she joined the staff of "Faith Bible"* Church working with college students. But when she was considered for a promotion from full-time intern to candidate for permanent "director" role, she was thoroughly quizzed in the interview about her views on both women in ministry and LGBTQ+. Her questions and evolving beliefs, in the minds of the decision-makers, made her "ineligible" for the job. Patriarchy clearly emerged as the church's policy. She enrolled in seminary to pursue those questions from a biblical, theological, social and cultural perspective, earning an M.Div. from Fuller Theological Seminary. Her conclusions form the content of this compelling book which Ken read in its entirety. As a recovering white evangelical republican male (The Beached White Male), Ken fully recommends Liz's book and this conversation. It is both a challenge to churches and Christians who remain doggedly committed to patriarchy and exclusion as "biblical" and an encouragement to the many who, like Ken and Liz, are in recovery from the toxicity of a religion that robs people of their dignity and value.
*NOTE: "Faith Bible" is not the name of the church. In her book, Liz employs pseudonyms for the individuals, churches, and institutions she references. Her story is not meant to dehumanize or demonize anyone - but to bring to light the damage and wounding inflicted by toxic beliefs and policies that rob communities of faith of the contribution that would otherwise bring energy, life, and a wider perspective.
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Just this week. the two Kens both encountered church-related, disconcerting setbacks. Kemp learned via an official, public email blast that the lead and founding pastor of the church that gave birth to the Center for Racial Reconciliation has been put on immediate leave of absence for "inappropriate texting." Just after recording this conversation, Fong uncovered some unsettling news from a chance encounter in the grocery store with a former parishioner. From the pulpit of a nearby sister church on Sunday morning, the senior pastor openly charged by name Fong and three other pastors (one deceased) by name as "false teachers" and "wolves in sheep's clothing."
In this episode, the two Kens unpack some of the many challenges of "mega-church" and the prevalence of vulnerable, celebrity pastors. Fong recalls his doctoral dissertation in which he contributed to the literature of the church growth movement. He disavowed much of that research when he published his 1999 book, Pursuing the Pearl. Mega-churches mimic the "Big Box" phenomena, they've become akin to Walmart, Target, and Costco.
Some years before he retired, Fong intentionally and willingly opened his church doors and now his podcast to the LGBT+ community. It signaled a change of heart and mind. The church lost members because of that decision but gained a whole lot more. Kemp accepted Fong's challenge to follow suit on this podcast. The two podcasters agree - if we are committed to the "ministry of reconciliation" to marginalized people groups - that should include them all. Kemp and Fong suggest that real church is something more. Much more.
Both Kens release this conversation on each of their podcasts. You can find Ken's edition at Asian America the Ken Fong Podcast, including a telling introduction here.
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I feel the need to clarify some of the things you'll find in my recent Beach Talk with Betsey Newenhuyse. Many of you have already listened in. We had a heartfelt and meaningful conversation around Indigenous Peoples' Day, the congressional predicament over the crippling absence of a Speaker of the House, and the crisis in Israel - the unanticipated and monstrous attack by Hamas on Israel at the border of the Gaza Strip. We unpacked our understanding of the Palestinian perspective in the Arab-Israeli conflict that has been simmering for nearly a hundred years - throughout history, often breaking out in all-out war. Today, as I reflect on my conversation with Betsey, I need to make a few things clear.
When we spoke, frankly, I had not understood the horrific magnitude of the massacre that has unfolded before a watching world. The butchery, the carnage, the cruelty unleashed on innocents: young and old, men and women, families and concertgoers. I do now. The bloody scenes are inhuman - impossible to watch.
I just want you to hear me say that I stand with President Joe Biden and the watching world in condemning this violence in no uncertain terms. That we must stand with Israel in ending the bloodshed and making every effort to rescue and release the many hostages who are living today in a terror that I will never fully comprehend.
Let us remember that this well-planned and executed barbarous operation was perpetrated by the radical wing of Hamas - not the Palestinian people.
Whatever your understanding of prayer - let us all pray. Pray for the families who have experienced unimaginable loss. Pray for the hostages - for their safe return home. Pray for the Israeli military as they leap headlong into harm's way. Pray for the Palestinian people in Gaza and other Palestinian territories as Israel retaliates. Pray that political leaders on all sides will find a way to stop the violence. Most of all, pray for peace.
I've been podcasting now for over three years. This is the first time I've felt compelled to broadcast a message like this one.
Thank you for listening.
We're in this together.
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Ken is back from his travels. He and Betsey Newenhuyse connect for another Beach Talk. Just a few days before this recording, the world turned its attention to the Middle East and the vicious, surprise attack of Hamas on Israel. Betsey shares that she has extended family living in Tel Aviv. Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu, who has been the focus of nationwide protests, takes international center stage promising a ruinous response. The Gaza Strip will be targeted. Ken and Betsey talk about the plight of Palestinians since the 1948 war. Ken shares his three visits to Israel and Palestinian territory. They turn their attention to the speakerless Congress, and the inability of the US Government to respond to the crisis. Ken shares his thoughts on Indigenous Peoples' Day - the national holiday declared to be so by Joe Biden as a Presidential Proclamation. SHOW NOTES
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Ken returns from a month of travel and shares an essay he wrote for his new Substack Page entitled Woke Pride. The article got great responses - indicating that many are reacting to the current anti-woke crusade. In this short episode, he reflects on the series Truth Quest aired this month, and shares plans for upcoming interviews. He encourages his listeners to call out the critics of woke and join our voices to express pride in being awake, aware, engaged, and working together for the common good.
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In this final episode of the summer series TRUTH QUEST, our travelers make their way to Selma and the Edmund Pettus Bridge. In March of 1965, civil rights protesters were met by a lineup of armed police (many on horseback) with attack dogs and billy clubs who ordered them to turn back. When the marchers refused, they were brutally attacked on a day that became known as Bloody Sunday. SNCC Director John Lewis (later Congressman) was viciously beaten and nearly died that day. We take a ceremonial walk across that bridge. We proceed to Birmingham, known in the 50s and 60s as "Bombingham," where Martin Luther King (along with Ralph Abernathy and Fred Shuttlesworth) were imprisoned in 1963 for their civil disobedience. We hear a reading of King's Letter from a Birmingham Jail (Osahon Obazuaye). Several months after King wrote his letter, a bomb exploded on a Sunday morning as the congregation gathered for worship in the basement of the 16th Street Baptist Church, killing four young girls. A fifth, Sarah Collins, lost her sister and best friends but survived the blast. All these years later, she met with our group in the memorial park across from the church and shared her story. Ken wraps the series with some reflections, from several fellow travelers and then some concluding reflections of his own. SHOW NOTES
Meet our contributors.
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
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Our exploration of the history of race in America takes us to Montgomery, Alabama. Harvard Attorney Bryan Stevenson opened the offices of the Equal Justice Initiative in the city where Rosa Parks refused to yield her seat on a public bus and where a young Dr. Martin Luther King became pastor of Dexter Street Baptist Church. The best-selling book which became a full-length feature film, JUST MERCY, tells the story of Bryan's work uncovering the incarceration of innocent victims and exposing the racial inequities of the Criminal Justice System. The Legacy Museum takes our contributors through the history of Slavery to Segregation to Incarceration to Lynching, highlighting the real resistance and the champions of the Civil Rights Movement. The Peace and Justice Memorial is designed to acknowledge and honor more than 4,000 documented lynchings that took place in some 800 counties in the United States. This episode is a moving account as our team processed, engaged, and learned, sharing their personal responses. SHOW NOTES
Meet our contributors.
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
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The Podcast Official Site: TheBeachedWhiteMale.com
Ken invites John Williams back to the podcast, this time to talk about the summer series, TRUTH QUEST. John and Ken review the origins of the Civil Rights (C.R.) Tour of the South, and John's journey from his law practice to his first C.R. Tour. His experience became a catalyst for leaving his law practice behind. A vision was born to introduce others to the history of race in America - to educate, inspire and transform. The Center has grown exponentially, influencing not only Fellowship Monrovia but churches, non-profits, and individuals across the nation by means of the tours, workshops, Table Talks, and curriculum development. In this conversation, John reflects on his personal meeting with the late Civil Rights icon and Congressman, John Lewis. John Williams has been in "Good Trouble" ever since, along with Ken. SHOW NOTES
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
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After a travel break, Ken and Betsey reconnect to catch up on the headlines. Mitt Romney's announcement that he will not seek another Senatorial term included his opnion that "it's time for a new generation of leaders" to take the stage. It puts the spotlight on both the current President (80) and the former President (77) and other hangers on like Mitch McConnell (81), Dianne Feinstein (who is retiring at age 90), Bernie Sanders (81), Nancy Pelosi (83), Steny Hoyer (83) and Jim Clyburn (82). Betsey calls them "geriatric politicians." Ken remembers the concept of "mandatory retirement." The Hunter Biden indictment triggers a case of whataboutism. Mitt Romney's sage advice comes at an opportune time: no one seems to want the Presidential match-up that the polls are predicting. The conversation turns to a discussion of Ken's new Substack page and his essays around three books that take on a troubling doctrine. A professor, a psychologist and a philosopher all challenge traditional teachings about heaven and hell. Ken's biggest issue is with "eternal conscious torment." Betsey weighs in - and the two speculate about what another author calls "the great dechurching."
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Historian and prolific author Martyn Whittock re-joins Ken to discuss his soon-to-be-released (November 7, 2023) book, American Vikings - How the Norse Sailed into the Lands and Imaginations of America from his study in the U.K. Martyn has appeared several times on the podcast - with conversations about the use and misuse of eschatology throughout history, the passing of Queen Elizabeth, the monarchy in Great Britain, the coronation of King Charles and the implications of a State Church (in contrast to separation of church and state in the USA). Martyn has written extensively about medieval history in Europe, but his interest was peaked as the events unfolded at the US Capitol on January 6, 2021. A most memorable character, Jake Chansley, AKA the Q-Shaman captured on camera at the podium of the inner sanctum, barechested, revealing tattoos and other symbols of Viking mythology. Martyn takes us back a thousand years (1021 C.E.) for an exploration of the Nordic saga and myth, the landing of the Vikings on this continent hundreds of years before Christopher Columbus, separating fact and fiction of that early occupation of what became known as America and finally the ways in which the Viking "deep story" penetrates the imagination of Americans. Marvel has tapped into the Viking world (the God of Thunder, Thor) in comic books and superhero cinema. That story has been hijacked and utilized as inspiration for the Alt-Right, white supremacy, and manifest destiny, culminating in the insurrection of January 2021, symbolized by the memorable character, the Q-Shaman, sentenced to nearly four years in prison. SHOW NOTES
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The tour bus delivers our travelers for two days in historic Memphis, Tennessee. The National Civil Rights Museum rests on the site of the Lorraine Motel, where Dr. Martin Luther King lost his life to an assassin's bullet while standing on the balcony with his trusted friends, Jesse Jackson, Ralph Abernathy, and Andrew Young. The Museum is housed in a comprehensive series of buildings that outlines the history of Slavery from 1619 to the present day. Exhibits feature the story of resistance and the champions of the Civil Rights Movement. Our tour explores the I AM A MAN Memorial Park and the Sanitation Worker's Strike of 1968 that brought Dr. King to Memphis. Then, we move on to the Burkle House, commonly known as the Slave Haven, a stop on the Underground Railroad. STAX RECORDS in Memphis launched American soul music, celebrated in the STAX Museum where careers were launched including Otis Redding, Isaac Hayes, the Staple Singers, Booker T. & the M.G.'s, and many others. Spoken word artist Rev. Jesse Jackson and comedians Moms Mabley and Richard Pryor got their start in the STAX studios. We end this edition of TRUTH QUEST on Beale Street, the home of B.B. King, Ida B. Wells, and The Memphis Blues. The grand boulevard became the inspiration for James Baldwin's fifth novel If Beale Street Could Talk. SHOW NOTES
In this episode, we happily introduce Sasha Lunginbuhl.
Meet our contributors.
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
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The Podcast Official Site: TheBeachedWhiteMale.com
In this installment of Ken's TRUTH QUEST series, we continue to relive the Civil Rights Tour of the South. Dr. John Perkins, author of 17 books, founder of Voice of Calvary and Harambee, and Christian activist in the Civil Rights movement welcomes our thirty-nine travelers in Jackson Mississippi. At age 92, he brings a Sunday morning message, entertains questions, and signs books. The bus goes to downtown Jackson to the Masonic Temple, headquarters for the Mississippi NAACP, SNCC, and SCLC. The group is welcomed by a group of senior citizens who were active in the Civil Rights Movement in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. They are, each one, "Living Legends." The following morning, the group arrives at the Emmett Till Intrepid Center in Money, Mississippi, a memorial to young Emmett Till who was brutally murdered and became an icon of the movement. Fourteen of the thirty-nine travelers share their reflections, ending with a beautiful dinner at the home of Albert Tate's (Founding Pastor of Fellowship Monrovia) mother. SHOW NOTES
Meet our contributors.
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
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The Podcast Official Site: TheBeachedWhiteMale.com
In this second installment of Ken's special series, TRUTH QUEST - Exploring the History of Race in America, we launch the Civil Rights tour of the South in New Orleans. The Whitney Plantation in St. John the Baptist Parish is a non-profit dedicated to preserving the history and legacy of slavery in Louisiana. You'll hear an in-depth description of the exhibits, displays, and elegant plantation house and how those displays impacted our team of pilgrims. In this episode, we are invited to a team "debrief," in which several share their personal responses to a history that has been hidden until now. Then Ken takes us to the French Quarter on a bustling Saturday evening in the heart of the New Orleans. Under the tutelage of master-guide, Leon A. Waters, the team wanders down the Mississippi River and Washington Artillery Park, to Jackson Square, by the St. Louis Cathedral, the Federal Courthouse, and the Slave Exchange, along the narrow streets filled with iconic architecture, surrounded by eager crowds, street vendors and musicians, lively multitudes lined up for the annual Pride Month Parade - New Orleans style. SHOW NOTES
Meet our contributors.
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
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The Podcast Official Site: TheBeachedWhiteMale.com
TRUTH QUEST brings Ken's participation on the Civil Rights Tour of the South to his podcast. This is the first of five episodes, bringing sixteen voices (of 39 travelers) to the microphone. Each will share what motivated them to join the tour, how the history and sites impacted them, and the commitments that emerge from this quest. In future episodes, we'll visit the iconic sites, from New Orleans to Jackson to Memphis to Montgomery to Selma, and finally, Birmingham.
Meet our contributors.
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
Become a Patron - Click on the link to learn how you can become a Patron of the show. Thank you!
The Podcast Official Site: TheBeachedWhiteMale.com
In my Christian tradition, we were taught that we are all created in the imago Dei, the image of God. According to our scriptures, that idea entered human consciousness from the very beginning, when God played the role of Creator. He (our English translation of the Bible uses the male pronoun) created ex nihilo, out of nothing. If we are made in that image, then we were made to create, too.
Ken Kemp and Ken Fong have journeyed through the unwelcome loss of Sharon (Snoopy) Fong, culminating in a beautiful memorial service this month. As Kemp contemplated the Two Kens conversations leading up to the memorial, he thought about the creative energy that sustained his friend Ken Fong. It was a white-knuckle roller coaster ride up and down, high and low - from using every means at their disposal to kill the cancer and preserve Snoopy's life; to bargaining, to grieving, to hoping, to despairing, and finally to letting go. Kemp shares his deep gratitude for what he learned along with the Fongs this summer. Kemp shares that Ken Fong's creativity has carried him through as he passed the "valley of the shadow" along with his beloved life-long partner, Snoopy.
Creativity has high therapeutic value in getting us through grief, hardship and loss. In this episode of the Two Kens, Kemp and Fong recount the planning and execution of a truly remarkable memorial service bringing to light an extraordinary life well lived through music, story, photographs, and homily. If you were able to attend the service in person or online, you will want to hear this back story of thoughtful preparation from the church where Fong had been lead pastor for some four decades and on to the waters of the Pacific Ocean between the two Hawaiian islands where Snoopy's "cremains" were joined as one to the wind and sea.
Ken Fong's Facebook Page | Sharon's Life Story | Ken's Hawaiian Farewell
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Ken fielded so many recommendations that he took in the box-office hit of the "faith-based" summer "Sound of Freedom." While he was told that it was an important contribution to raising awareness of a global tragedy, it didn't take long to realize that this film has its critics. It has become a major rallying point for right-wing culture warriors including Steve Bannon, Eric Metaxas, and star of the film Jim Caviezel (a Q-Anon promoter). "Based on a true story," Caviezel plays the role of a real-life character, Tim Ballard, who made a name for himself as a controversial vigilante rescuer of trafficked children. After viewing the film, Ken went to his friend Dalaina May, Founder and Director of Dark Bali, a global organization (focussed on Indonesia) that is building a coalition of some 60 organizations that "strengthens and equips those on the front lines of anti-human trafficking." Dalaina brings decades of experience in addressing the issues around trafficking and a strong network of international specialists including law enforcement, medical professionals, teachers and professors, community leaders, therapists and, she is quick to add, survivors - whom she calls the "real heroes' of the movement. Ken went to Dalaina to separate fact from fiction - and to help us all understand better how to support the vision of her non-profit: "to see slavery abolished and the lives of survivors restored through creating awareness, empowering advocacy, and building partnerships for the prevention, rescue, and restoration of trafficked people in Bali and throughout Indonesia." SHOW NOTES
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This week's Beach Talk takes us to the shores of Maui and the tragic fire that stunned the world. The losses are immeasurable. The New York Times speaks to the pastor of the oldest church on the island. Ken shares something of the profoundly moving memorial he attended for his friend Sharon "Snoopy" Fong (born and raised in Hawaii) - Betsey tuned to the live stream along with some 1,600 others from all over the country. There's lots to think about from this woman, gone too soon, who was married for more than forty years to Ken's podcasting partner, Ken Fong. Finally, they unpack the indictments this week in the State of Georgia - RICO charges identifying a conspiracy of some nineteen individuals seeking to overturn a legal presidential election. At the top of the list - the 45th President.
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Carole Holiday thinks of herself as an "Accidental Author." Her new book (release date: September 19, 2023), "I Don't Know Who I Am Anymore," is heartily endorsed by Ken. He wrote, "I met Carole Holiday when she was seventeen. I was twenty-two. She was as engaging then as she is now. Over the decades, we’ve known some remarkable successes. But we both have taken unexpected, unanticipated, unwelcome hits, too. Carole has been there for us through the laughter and tears, often at an exquisitely set table over just the right food and usually a fine wine." Ken and Carole share their decades-long friendship and the life-giving insights that emerge in her remarkable book. Carole openly shares what she calls her "avalanche of loss," the meaning of true friendship, and what she has gleaned from her Bible, her extensive reading, her acting classes and her considerable experience as a motivational speaker. Ken was there as over 10,000 in the arena listened as Carole "held us all in the palm of her hand." This is an honest, energizing conversation. Ken was touched by Carole's candor, her story-telling, and her heart - as you will be. Ken's endorsement ends like this: "Reading this book is like cherished one-on-one time with my friend. It’s a conversation - give and take. It is a gift. As is Carole Holiday." SHOW NOTES - include links to follow Carole's journey and the opportunity to pre-order her book.
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This week, Ken and Betsey decide not to focus on politics - even with yet another indictment coming down. It's summer... time to dwell on "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."* They talk about Ken's new Substack project, a sermon Betsey found enriching and because it's a summer super-hit, they talk about Barbie. Betsey remember's her daughter's fascination with her Barbie and Ken dolls - and how she got her pastor father to perform a wedding on the floor - "Do you Barbie take Ken..." Ken shares a new book by historian Mark Noll about the Bible in American life.
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*from The Bible
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In his shortest episode ever, Ken announces the launch of his Substack Page - and his first post: "All My Friends Are Finding New Beliefs."* The podcast just passed a new milestone. After 283 episodes, in a phrase borrowed from author Steven Pressfield (The War of Art), this podcast is exactly what Ken "cannot not do." He expresses his deep appreciation to the some 75 guests and the many new folks who have signed up for his newsletter. He asks a favor - to leave a comment on your podcast feed, especially for those who listen on Apple Podcasts.
*The title of a poem by Christian Wiman in a book entitled Poetry Unbound
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Rick Pidcock is a regular contributor to Baptist News Global, an independent news organization that provides "original and curated news, opinion and analysis about matters of faith." As a regular reader, Ken noticed Rick's impressive weekly article collection. With a background in homeschooling and private Christian schools, Rick graduated from Bob Jones University. Rick tells his personal story of seminary training, church planting, and leading worship. When his lead pastor walked out, he experienced a crisis of faith. He turned his focus to his considerable skills as a journalist. He is a perceptive commentator on politics and religion. He tells his story growing up in classic Southern evangelicalism - from purity culture to "Left Behind" politics and fears of eternal punishment. He describes his journey of deconstruction. Ken chooses three of Rick's recent articles to unpack. They talk about James Dobson and Eugenics, Tim Scott as a conservative African American Republican candidate for President, and complementarianism as a threat to the health of the family. SHOW NOTES
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Dr. Sharp's expansive book, The Other Evangelicals, dials back the clock to the early days of evangelicalism. Isaac identifies a significant collection of high-profile, self-identified "evangelical" Christians who just do not fit the current stereotype. Some were liberal, others black or progressive or feminist even gay. What these believers have in common is that they were ultimately rejected as "evangelicals" by the self-appointed gatekeepers of the movement. In this PART II of this series, Ken and Dr. Sharp begin with a discussion of the Bible - as the inerrant and infallible authority over the movement as argued by Harold Lindsell in his Battle for the Bible. It's not just the book itself, but the sectarian interpretation of the book that for many becomes non-negotiable for many. Women like Letha Scanzoni, Nancy Hardesty and Virginia Mollenkott engaged feminism as part of their biblical faith. Dr. David Gushee (Sharp's academic advisor turned literary colleague) challenges evangelicalism's condemnation of the LGBTQ+ community. They talk about Dr. Ralph Blair, an ardent biblical Christian psychologist, and his critique of "pray-it-away" reparative therapy. The Exodus International, promoted by Rev. Jerry Falwell, represented itself as a biblical ministry that existed to "cure" homosexuality. But it was ceremoniously shut down by founder Alan Chambers. Lawsuits, abuse and documented psychological harm overwhelmed the operation and led to its demise. John R. W. Stott and Tony Campolo challenged evangelical assumptions, but their advice went unheeded. In the era of Trumpism, evangelicals virtually eliminated these non-conformists from their exclusive tribe. In spite of the efforts of these biblical voices, evangelicalism has become the domain of white, conservative Republicanism. SHOW NOTES
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After a courageous, tireless battle, Sharon "Snoopy" Fong left us on July 1, 2023. This Two Kens episode is the twenty-seventh time Ken Fong and Ken Kemp have come together for a podcast conversation - this time, it's a somber, solemn occasion. It's a moment of reflection - filled with both grief and gratitude. Today's title comes from C.S. Lewis, the British literary critic, and scholar who was also known as an Anglican theologian. His writings have influenced many generations of faith seekers, including ours. Professor Lewis was known as a committed bachelor, but he married later in life. When Joy Grisham began corresponding with the stuffy Oxford don, he was smitten - "surprised by joy (Joy)" as he put it. As their romance blossomed, Joy Grisham was unexpectedly diagnosed with a cancer that took her life, all too soon. Lewis' shared his written reflections. His honesty and candor stunned many of his Christian readers because he openly expressed tidal waves of doubt, even anger that his "good" God could possibly have allowed this tragic, premature end to his beautiful awakening to married love. He wrote "A Grief Observed," which it was.
Ken Fong lines up with C.S. Lewis in his willingness to share the journey openly - a journey filled with laughter and tears. The two Kens come together for a personal reflection on life and love - and the extraordinary woman who came into Ken Fong's life more than forty years ago: Sharon Snoopy Fong. Have a hanky handy.
CaringBridge: https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/sharonsnoopyfong
Memorial Service: Saturday, August 12, 2023, at 10 AM at Evergreen Baptist Church of Los Angeles - 1255 Rosemead Boulevard, Rosemead, California
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Ken and Betsey reconvene for another summer Beach Talk. They begin by relaying the news that their friend and podcast colleague, Ken Fong, just this week bid farewell to his life-long partner, Snoopy, after a protracted and heart-rending battle with cancer. Betsey shares something of her own loss a few years back. A regular Twitter user with over a thousand followers, Betsey gives her thoughts on the recent challenge from META (Zuckerberg's Facebook) with a new competing platform called Threads. It puts two giant media platforms on a collision course, leaving Elon Musk falling well short of his intentions after allocating a significant percentage of his staggering wealth on the line. They review the SCOTUS decisions last month as a cautionary tale of what is yet to come. The stage version of "The Who's Tommy Musical" got Betsey rocking and reminiscing and the early days when the music of The Who captured her imagination.
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Ken welcomes author, professor, and scholar of religion Isaac Sharp, Ph.D. to talk about his new book, The Other Evangelicals: Liberal, Black, Progressive, Feminist, and Gay Christians - and the Movement that Pushed them Out. Recently, a raft of scholarship has emerged around the question - who are "The Evangelicals" and how did they manage to wield such social and political power? Dr. Sharp charts out a unique approach - he dials back the clock some fifty years and identifies prominent individuals in each of the five categories who were theologically, biblically, and self-proclaimed "Evangelicals." But their interpretation of Scripture, and their political and social concerns became unacceptable to the self-appointed guardians of what Sharp calls the "capital E" Evangelicals. In other words, one can better understand the movement by identifying the individuals who were rejected, ejected, or banished by the dominant tribal leaders.
In this Part I of a two-part series, Isaac shares how his doctoral dissertation gave birth to this published work. Sharp reveals that many if not most of the individuals in his profiles were heretofore unknown to him - for good reason. Not only are they forgotten in Evangelical history, their work has been "erased." Not for Ken. This book tracks the personal story of the Beached White Male. Many of the men and women who appear in Isaac's book were Ken's professors, authors of books he read, and keynote speakers in conferences and other venues. In this episode, they focus on the early roots of evangelicalism that include some surprising characters - "liberals" like Harry Emerson Fosdick, black (African American) evangelicals like Tom Skinner and Bill Pannell, "progressives" like Jim Wallis and Ron Sider, and "feminists" like Henrietta Mears, Nancy Hardesty, and Virginia Mollenkott... and more. SHOW NOTES
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Ken and Osahon ("O") pick up on another Cabana Talk - this time to unpack the great cultural divide in our churches and beyond. The tidal wave of conservatism that targets race, gender, and education in our country has exacerbated the polarization that is so prevalent across the nation. Some celebrate. Others lament. Millennials are exiting the churches of their childhood in great numbers. Pastors, like Rev. John Onwuchekwa (SBC), are leaving the ministry, burned out, wounded, and frustrated. Ken shares his conviction that "those who celebrate" this conservative trend need to hear the voices of "those who lament." The recent Supreme Court decisions that target affirmative action, gender equality, and student debt underscore the alienation felt by "those who lament." O shares his heart - his is a voice that needs to be heard. Stay through the end to hear Osahon share about his new full-time position at Just Us 4 Youth, training and motivating a significant team of mentors, coaches, and tutors. They work with energy, conviction, and sharp focus with "At Promise" kids who live in underserved communities and attend underfunded schools. Consider this: "Those who lament" are also those who care - and give themselves to the common good with abandon. O's one of them. SHOW NOTES
Just Us 4 Youth - Transforming the Lives of Urban Youth
New York Times - Black, Evangelical, and Torn
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This week the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) issued rulings that will have a dramatic impact on our nation. Ken welcomes Dr. Gilbert Walton for a wide-ranging conversation around Affirmative Action, higher education, and the roles of Justices Ketanji Brown Jackson and Clarence Thomas. Ken and Gilbert met on the Civil Rights Tour of the South. Dr. Walton was a featured contributor to Ken's podcast series, Truth Quest, an in-depth look at the journey that took their fellow travelers from New Orleans to Birmingham - an intense exposure to the history of Civil Rights in America. Dr. Walton shares his perspective as a medical professional who benefited from Affirmative Action. His academic career began on the campus of Fisk University, an historic black university (HBCU) where he earned a bachelor's degree. It was in graduate school where A.A. opened doors to complete first an M.A. in microbiology and then his M.D. in medical school. He shares both the benefits and the challenges he faced, achieving high honors as a military officer and physician. Together, they unpack the social and political implications of the decidedly conservative SCOTUS. Ken offers his reflections on the Federalist Society, founded in 1982 during the Reagan era, which gave us six of the nine Justices of the Supreme Court and every one of Donald Trump's appointees to the Federal bench.
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This episode takes the two podcasters named Ken into very personal territory. The whole world's attention was captured for several days by the plight of five adventurers who plunged into the depths of the North Atlantic in the Ocean Gate Titan to catch a glimpse of the hundred-year-old ruins of the ocean liner Titanic resting on the ocean floor. With sudden silence, just an hour into the descent, communication came to a mysterious and abrupt end. Untethered, the unknown fate of the passengers and crew of the submersible became "BREAKING NEWS," a drama that rallied an armada of rescue ships and planes and high-tech underwater sonars, cameras, and robots. If the Titan had remained intact, reserve oxygen supplies would have run out about the time that rescuers found hard evidence: under the crushing weight of water pressure at extreme depths, the Titan imploded, leaving no survivors. In another scene in the Mediterranean, just off the coast of Greece, a terribly over-loaded ferry boat capsized, resulting in the loss of hundreds of lives - immigrants escaping war and violence and loss coming from as far away as Pakistan with hopes of a better life in Europe. The second event received much less coverage in the global press than the five wealthy passengers of the Titan. The Two Kens ponder the significance of risk and loss, national priorities, life and death. These events unfold in the media in the real and present context of Ken Fong's current personal crisis. Snoopy, his life partner of over forty years is in the battle for her own life against an aggressive cancer. It's a heartfelt conversation between the two Kens. You are invited to join in.
Ken Fong's Caring Bridge page tracking Snoopy's Journey
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Ken welcomes Kristina Flanagan, retired psychotherapist, MSW, Vedic astrologer and soon-to-be graduate of Richard Rohr's Living School. At Kristina's invitation (after Ken invited himself!), Ken and Carolyn spent a few days in a beautiful casita on her property, a lovely expanse of New Mexico's rolling hills and meadows just south of Santa Fe. She, her architect, and contractor completed the pleasing structures just a few years ago, a place of retreat and renewal she calls "La Molina." Kristina shares her journey - from her undergraduate years at Stanford University to her focus on social work, therapy, Enneagram, and eight visits to India. More recently, she discovered the writings of Fr. Richard Rohr.
Kristina has served on the Boards of Directors at both the San Francisco and Santa Fe Operas. She is a lover of art - sculptures, paintings, and water features adorn La Molina at every turn. For more than a decade, her passion has been her horses. She is Chairman of the Board of a non-profit called A Chance of a Lifetime where she works closely with the organization's founders. They are authentic "horse-whisperers." The website says this: "Our environment fosters interaction and companionship with the herd where we build respect, trust, patience, empowerment, awareness, acceptance and vulnerability as we nurture a deeper experience of the horse–human relationship." Kristina relays her rich experience of building and living at La Molina. Ken is now a witness of how this extraordinary place transforms, heals, and awakens the spirit.
A Chance of a Lifetime Website
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On Juneteenth weekend, Ken returns from his New Mexico road trip and reconnects with Betsey for Beach Talk #105. One more time, the former president was arraigned facing a damning indictment for obstruction of justice and obstinate refusal to return classified documents. The Southern Baptists overwhelmingly voted to disenfranchise Southern California's Saddleback megachurch in spite of Rick Warren's passionate appeal. If a local church ordains a woman, they are no longer welcome in the association of Southern Baptists. Evangelicalism, as it is known in the public square, appears to be collapsing under the weight of indictments, theological and social regression, and a spate of documentaries, including a focus on the once-popular Duggar family. The scandal surrounding sexual, emotional, and spirituals abuse is exposed in the four-part series that connects the Duggars with the infamous Bill Gothard, creator of the fundamentalist non-profit called Basic Institute of Life Principles (BILP) - formerly known as the Basic Institute in Youth Conflicts. Betsey and Ken point to the hopeful signs explained by Brian McLaren, who calls the newly emerging movement The Great Spiritual Migration. Ken adds some comments about the National Holiday Juneteenth.
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Ken welcomes first-time guest, author Martyn Whittock to discuss his recent book, The End Times, Again? -2000 Years of the Use & Misuse of Biblical Prophecy. While listening to the BWM podcast at his home near Bath in England (the UK), Martin reached out to Ken to discuss his book's themes and how they play out in the US... and much more. Ken shares his concern about the misappropriation of eschatology (the study of the last times) in American politics. Martin agrees and expands the conversation to include Brexit, the Economic Union (EU), and Russia not only on the contemporary scene but throughout history. The author of more than fifty books, Whittock shares his early fascination with evangelical Christianity. His father, a conservative Methodist minister, gave him an early immersion in prophetic teachings - much of which Martyn had to rework as he studied history and religion at the University of Bristol. The conversation takes them through a millennium of European and American history and touches on the Viking raids, The Crusades, the English Civil War of 1640, the Pope in Rome, Napoleon and on to Mikhail Gorbachev, Henry Kissinger, Vladimir Putin, the election of Donald Trump and his "evangelical support." The misuse of Bible prophesy has contributed to Christian Nationalism, and conspiracy theories (including Q-Anon) in America and in Europe as well. Whittock, a self-proclaimed Bible-believing evangelical Christian, shares his ideas regarding a proper approach to prophetic and apocalyptic literature. SHOW NOTES
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Ken welcomes Dr. Shandra McDonald, student success strategist, and fellow podcaster. The two met on a Civil Rights tour of the South in 2019. As she observes, Shandra's strategy took her from "clueless to Cum Laude." The two podcasters discuss the unique challenges facing students with academic ambitions - exploring Shandra's powerful personal story. She's earned three college degrees (Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice, Master of Public Administration, and Doctor of Public Administration), entered Federal service under the Outstanding Scholars Program, served as an adjunct professor, and appears as a guest lecturer. She is the author of Academic Survival: Simple Strategies for Improving Your Grades, contributing author of the textbook Government at Work: Policy Making in the Twenty-First-Century Congress, and host of the Academic Survival Podcast.
SHOW NOTES - find links to Shandra's sites and free book.
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Ken welcomes PhD Candidate, writer, and educator, Rebecca Rea Ross. Podcaster and author, Brad Onishi, made the introduction. "Ken - here is a perfect person to interview on your podcast," he said. He was right. Rebecca's passion is energizing her dissertation's focus. She combines her journey from ultra-conservative home school in eastern Washington State to Christian college to Masters Degree to a fully credentialled high school English teacher. With a keen interest in the way language is used to hold people in abusive, often toxic places, Rebecca is a captivating storyteller with a timely message. She openly shares her conservative evangelical family pedigree. It places her squarely in the center of biblical fundamentalism's heartland. Listen in to get the particulars. You will recognize the well-known names. Rebecca's is a story of transformation - from an immersion in a world dominated by the most ardent apologists for complementarianism to a liberation of spirit, claiming agency and more than egalitarianism, finding her true self. Don't miss this remarkable conversation. SHOW NOTES
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Ken Fong stumbled across an opinion piece in the L.A. TIMES by Osamudia James, Professor of Law at the University of North Carolina. Entitled - Florida’s censorship of ‘diversity’ efforts are a tantrum born of white guilt - Kemp agreed the article is worthy of full discussion. The author's phrase, "white innocence," underscores the claim made by Robyn DiAngelo in her now classic book, White Fragility. White folks instinctively resist real conversations about race, often with vigor. Ken Fong wanted to know if The Beached White Male agreed: Is white folks' common claim to "innocence" a factor in the Anti-Woke, Anti-CRT campaign that this article calls a childish "tantrum"? In response, Kemp shares his journey - from conservative white Boomer to host of his progressive podcast. He identifies as "white," but deplores "whiteness." The two Kens explore their personal stories that confirm the good professor's thesis. They call out the Florida governor's highly politicized crusade against D.E.I. (diversity, equity, and inclusion) for what Kemp calls "whiteness at work." SHOW NOTES
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Ken welcomes tenured UCLA Professor and prolific author, Dr. Robert Chao Romero to the podcast. They discuss his new book: Christianity and Critical Race Theory: A Faithful and Constructive Conversation. CRT and “Wokism” have become misappropriated political tropes across the country. Dr. Romero and Jeff Liou have collaborated on a compelling book that makes an important contribution to the conversation, bringing correction, insight, and inspiration. The terms CRT and “WOKE” have been weaponized in a way that distorts their intended meanings and adds to our political, social, and spiritual polarization. A deeply committed Christian, Dr. Romero has been teaching CRT for many years in both undergraduate and graduate courses at the university, long before the terms appeared on the public scene. Equipped with a master's degree (UCLA) a law degree (UC Berkeley) and a Ph.D. (UCLA), Robert is uniquely positioned to demystify the controversy and represent a biblical perspective that challenges the popular notions that are being used to silence history, perpetuate misinformation and fuel racial animosities. SHOW NOTES
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After a few weeks break, Ken and Betsey reunited at their imaginary beach and catch up on the headlines. The passing of the popular pastor and author Tim Keller signals the loss of an unusual evangelical: theologically and socially conservative, but a fresh, intelligent, innovative voice who left a lasting impact on the city of New York and beyond. Ken offers a review of his current read, The Other Evangelicals - A Story of Liberal, Black, Progressive, Feminist, and Gay Christians―and the Movement That Pushed Them Out. Ken names some of them: Harry Emerson Fosdick, Tom Skinner, Jim Wallis, Nancy Hardesty, Virginia Mollenkott, and Ralph Blair to name a few. Betsey and Ken raise the question: "Who decides who is an 'Evangelical'"? The New York Times predicts that the former president is the inevitable nominee of the Republican Party. His lock on a base that measures 30-35% of the voting public makes him virtually unbeatable. That base holds firm even in the face of a flurry of legal challenges, which include massive civil penalties, sanctions and even jail time. The rising number of Republican challengers doesn't change the calculation. If anything, it makes Tr**p's nomination all the more likely. Betsey compares and contrasts the political styles of the governor of Florida and the Secretary of Transportation - DeSantis vs. Buttigieg. She favors the latter.
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Dr. Peter Enns returns to the podcast to discuss his brand new book Curve-ball - When Your Faith Takes Turns You Never Saw Coming* or How I Stumbled and Tripped My Way to Finding a Bigger God. Pete admits it's the longest title in the history of publishing. The popular professor, author (see show notes for his many other books), and podcaster (The Bible for Normal People) drops his guard like never before sharing his spiritual and intellectual journey from his days as an aspiring baseball player to progressive Christian thinker. "Wrestling with God and Scripture is very old and completely normal. Actually, it's God-activated," he says. In reviewing the book, Ken and Pete talk about Noah, Jonah, and Jesus as archetypes in the struggle. Richard Rohr, David Bentley Hart, Thomas Oord and Rachel Held Evans get honorable mention as guides. Evolution is a major "curveball" for many Christians. Pete is especially interested in the chaos and "weirdness" of physics and quantum mechanics, all of which have opened Pete's mind and heart to a much bigger and more profound notion of God. While Pete avoids the clichéd use of the over-used and misappropriated descriptor, "deconstruction," he traces a normal, natural, and healthy evolution in our understanding of faith and our relationship to the God of the Universe. SHOW NOTES
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Professor, comedian, podcaster and now author, R. Scott Okamoto returns to the podcast to discuss his new book: Asian American Apostate - Losing my Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University (Ev.U.). After reading the volume cover to cover, Ken shares his written review which will appear on the Amazon site featuring Scott's book. Throughout Scott's college and graduate school life, he identified as a committed evangelical Christian, working closely with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. Earning his B.A. at the University of California at San Diego and then his M.A. at the University of San Francisco, Scott began teaching as an adjunct at a high-profile evangelical university (Ev.U.) in Southern California. Within a few years, he became popular a full professor in the English department. But as he taught, privately, his Christian faith began to unravel. The conservative political culture, the exclusivist fundamentalism, the racial insensitivities, and the gender debates all contributed to what he now calls a complete deconstruction of his faith. After leaving Ev.U., Scott created a safe space for others to discover freedom, identity, and community outside the structures and strictures of high-demand religion and conservative politics. He tells his story and theirs in this episode of the podcast, his new book, and his many interviews as host of his own popular podcast - Chapel Probation. SHOW NOTES.
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If you missed the Coronation, you'll want to tune in here. Ken welcomes back author, historian, columnist, and lay minister in the Church of England, Martyn Whittock. It's a lively conversation between a curious American and a scholarly Brit. Ken acknowledges the appearance of excess, the residual of colonialism, and the confusion over the cozy Church/State dynamic. That said, Ken then explains his personal family connection to London, to the former Prince Charles, and to the King's carriages - and how he finds the pomp and circumstance so moving.
From his home in Bath, England, Martyn shares his perspective on the historic celebration of the Coronation of King Charles III in London, the first in 70 years. Charle's mother, Queen Elizabeth, was crowned in 1953. Martyn just published a comprehensive article in Brittain's Christian Today explaining the 1,000 years of coronation history at Westminster Abbey in London. Martyn gives a first-person response to the grand celebration that captured the rapt attention of the nation, the Commonwealth, and the world. The ceremony was filled with symbolism, much of which Martyn explains. Ken quizzes his guest on the future of the monarchy and the nature of his "Christian nation" as it compares to the American version of Christian Nationalism. Martyn relays 1,000 years of history in which the monarch evolved as non-political and Parliament emerged as a secular governing body, today with a professing Hindu as Prime Minister (Rishi Sunak). Martyn shares his thoughts on the two couples in the spotlight - William & Kate and Harry & Megan.
Martyn also introduces his new book to be released in the Fall: American Vikings - How the Norse Sailed into the Lands and Imaginations of America
SHOW NOTES - See Martyn's books, TV appearances, and published articles
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Ken and Betsey review her visit to Southern California, which included a visit to the high desert "Super Bloom" of poppies and spring color, an evening conversation around the topic "Reimagining the Church," and a tour of Ken Fong's beautiful Japanese garden. Joe Biden is an official candidate for the Democratic nomination for a second term as POTUS. Polls predict a rematch of the two aging politicians - Biden v. Tr**p - as "most likely"... but the majority of Americans don't want it. The annual Correspondents Dinner put Joe Biden in the spotlight. Noting his stellar performance, it led Ken to the conclusion that "maybe he can do it." There's yet another firing at a high-profile evangelical college in the Mid-West over ANTI-WOKE/ANTI-CRT - Professor Julie Moore at Taylor University. Secretary Pete gets the credit for the theme of Biden's campaign: Freedom!
SHOW NOTES - including photo galleries from Crystal Cove, the Super Bloom, and Ken Fong's Garden.
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Ken welcomes the popular scholar, professor, author, and podcaster, Dr. Peter Enns. Pete's podcast, The Bible for Normal People ("the only God-ordained podcast on the internet") has a broad and wide reach, exploring the sacred text along with his co-host Jared Byas. They have interviewed a wide range of scholars from many religious and theological backgrounds. Ken especially appreciates his watershed book, The Sin of Certainty. The two share their journeys through seminary, and Pete gets candid about his experience at Harvard where he completed his dissertation and earned that Ph.D. Pete's early book, Inspiration and Incarnation: Evangelicals and the Problem of the Old Testament, sparked a controversy that led to his departure as full professor at Westminster Theological Seminary. Pete candidly shares the awakenings he experienced in those formative days and the freedom he enjoys today. SHOW NOTES
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Ken welcomes professor, fellow podcaster, and author Dr. Brad Onishi back to the podcast to talk about his new book - Preparing for War - The Extremist History of White Christian Nationalism and What Comes Next (release date: January 3, 2023). A long-time friend of the podcast, Brad has been busy after a major event in Denver focussed on Christian Nationalism last month with a large audience both live and virtual. It featured major influencers and thinkers including Robert P. Jones, Sam Perry, Katherine Steward, Larycia Hawkins, and his podcast partner, Dan Miller. In addition to his regular podcast, Straight White American Jesus,. Brad is releasing a series on The New Apostolic Reformation with Professor Matthew Taylor, Ph.D. It's an expose on a growing movement advancing an extreme dominion version of Christianity. Brad introduces his book which traces what we now know as Christian Trumpism from the 1960s to the present in the context of his own personal journey - beginning with his conversion in high school in Orange County (CA); the great mid-west and Southern migration to California, the John Birch Society, The Crystal Cathedral and Robert Schuller, his own Friends Church (predominantly white) and Friendship Baptist Church (predominantly black), to Dr. James Dobson and his secular eugenicist mentor, Dr. Paul Pompenoe. Onishi fills in the background on two Jericho Marches, featuring Eric Metaxas, Michael Flynn and Alex Jones, which were a prelude to the January 6 Insurrection. Finally, the two discuss the ways in which American Evangelicalism finds its roots in The Lost Case Narrative of the South. SHOW NOTES
Originally aired December 2022
Purchase Brad's new Book: Preparing for War - The Extremist History of White Christian Nationalism--and What Comes Next
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Podcasters Ken Fong and Ken Kemp come together again as The Two Kens to unpack the drama of an historical moment in American political history - a former President of the United States was indicted by a Grand Jury and arraigned on thirty-four felony counts. While the nation debates the merits of the case brought by District Attorney Alvin Bragg before Judge Juan Merchan, the Two Ken's reflect on the import of bringing Donald J. Trump into the Manhattan Criminal Courthouse accused of falsifying official records relative to the payment of $130,000 to Stormy Daniels in exchange for her silence. In his introduction to the podcast, Kemp takes time to comment on another major event: the expulsion of two young lawmakers from the Tennessee House of Representatives, Justin Jones and Justin Pearson.
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Ken and Betsey's week in review - Wisconsin overwhelmingly elects Janet Protasiewicz as progressive Justice to the State Supreme Court and sends a message to a Republican-ruled Legislature. It's an indicator of public reaction to the draconian legislation advanced by extreme conservatism. In Betsey's Chicago, former Mayor Lori Lightfoot's successor, Brandon Johnson has been elected. Ken and Betsey share a love for the Windy City and discuss the political climate there. The same day as the election, former President appeared before prosecutor Alvin Bragg and New York Judge Juan Manuel Merchan to be formally indicted on 34 criminal counts as the world watched. The two discuss reactions from both detractors and supporters of the proceedings. The Tennessee Legislature became the focus of a massive student protest prompted by the horrific shooting at a Christian school in Nashville. Three elected legislators (The Tennessee Three - Justin Jones, Justin Pearson, and Gloria Johnson) joined in the protests and faced an expulsion vote by a Republican-controlled Assembly. Betsey closes by asking Ken about Easter plans, then sharing her own.
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Ken welcomes fellow sojourner and podcaster, Tim Whitaker. Tim is "Creator and Facilitator" of The New Evangelicals, a highly popular and widely followed non-profit that sponsors podcasts and commentary that appear regularly on YouTube, Instagram, and TikToc. His productions include everything from short spots to full-length interviews, In his conversation with Ken, Tim tells his story - from home-schooled kid to drummer in a worship band to sold-out Jesus-follower to high-energy podcast host. As his view of the gospel expanded, he began to resist evangelical Trumpism and then consider the validity of Pro-Choice, then develop LGBTQ sensibilities. As a consequence, Tim's lead pastor ceremoniously dismissed him from his cherished role as lead drummer in the worship band. That moment triggered a period he calls "deconstruction." Tim brings a truthful and direct challenge to an evangelicalism that has become a voting block for right-wing political causes, election denial, conspiracy theories, Christian Nationalism, the Trump cult, and a distortion of what Tim believes to be biblical Christianity.
Ken and Tim have interviewed many of the same influencers, authors, and activists including Brad Onishi, Lisa Sharon Harper, Kristen Kobes Du Mez, Pete Enns, David Gushee, Jemar Tisby, Diana Butler Bass, and Ben Cremer. Tim has also welcomed other notables to his podcast such as Anthea Butler, Matthew Taylor, Katherine Stewart, Tripp Fuller, Katelyn Beaty, Sam Perry, Andrew Seidel, Dante Stewart, and Dr. Russell Moore. Tim calls out people like Charlie Kirk, Sean Feucht, Candace Owens, and John MacArthur among others as perpetrators of false narratives that have misled many.
It's a lively conversation you won't want to miss.
SHOW NOTES - Including links to Tim and THE NEW EVANGELICALS
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Today's Beach Talk begins with a review of the 100th Episode aired last week with guests Darcy McKenzie and Ken Fong. Ken and Betsey turn their attention to the tragic shooting at the Covenant (Elementary) School in Nashville, Tennessee where three 9-year-old students and three adults, including the school's headmaster, were brutally murdered. The shooter was quickly taken out by courageous first responders who arrived on the scene within minutes. The perpetrator used legally obtained automatic weapons to terrorize the school. Ken and Betsey reflect on the reports of the shooter's identity. They affirm that the killer is entirely responsible for the heinous crime, no question. However, the manifesto left behind by the perpetrator indicates that Audrey Hale identified as transgender. It raises questions about the conservative school's treatment of the LGBTQ community and the shooter's experience there as a young student. Right-wing politicians and religious zealots across the country have targeted transgender individuals, young and old, with all manner of restrictive, moralistic and sometimes draconian legislation and policies. Ken turns the conversation to a new subject. He shares his most recent read - Celebrities for Jesus: How Personas, Platforms, and Profits Are Hurting the Church by Katelyn Beaty. Ken asks Betsey about here experience with "The Billy Graham Rule" in her role as an editor for Christian organizations.
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Lerone A. Martin, Ph.D. is Director of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute (MLKREI) and Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Stanford University. A prolific author, lecturer and influencer, Dr. Martin discusses his most recent ground-breaking book, The Gospel of J. Edgar Hoover: How the FBI Aided and Abetted the Rise of Christian Nationalism with Ken. Thanks to a series of requests to and lawsuits against the FBI under the Freedom of Information Act, Martin has acquired a treasure trove of documents hidden for decades in the Bureau's file cabinets. This new biography of the man whose name became synonymous with the Federal Bureau of Investigation takes us into the up until now neglected religious and spiritual underpinnings of Hoover's life and mission. Of surprising interest to Ken, the book convincingly connects the dots between the lifelong FBI Director Hoover and evangelicalism's early champions: Billy Graham, Carl F. H. Henry, Dr. Nelson Bell, and Christianity Today. But the story Lerone Martin tells in his new book is much larger, exposing and expounding a virulent form of Christian Nationalism (Americanism) all the way back to the 1920s. Dr. Martin, whose academic career takes him from Oral Roberts University (first-year undergraduate and athlete), Anderson University (B.A.), Princeton Theological Seminary (M.Div.), and Emory University (Ph.D.), shares his personal journey as a minister and now professor and Director of the MLKREI at Stanford University. SHOW NOTES
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Rev. Ben Cremer, Campus Pastor at Cathedral of the Rockies in Boise, Idaho, has a social presence that is getting a significant and growing response. Ken stumbled across his lengthy essay Ben called, "Myths We Believe" in which he details things he was taught to embrace, but he's had to unlearn. The article beautifully tracks Ken's journey, too. Ben was Home-schooled (K-12) in "a deeply conservative environment in rural Idaho - as far right politically and theologically as you can imagine." Today, he pastors a satellite campus of a progressive, affirming United Methodist congregation in a conspicuously red state. Just recently, Ben appeared on the local ABC Affiliate (Channel 7) in politics and religion piece in which a local television journalist gave extensive interviews to two Pastors: Blaine Conzatti and Ben Cremer. Conzatti, a very conservative pastor (The Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches) and political activist (President of Idaho Family Policy Center), and Ben. Ken and Ben unpack his long journey from those early home-school years (with a curriculum rooted in the "Christian Identity" movement that denied the Holocaust, argued that slavery was good because it introduced Africans to Christianity, and separation of the races is God's design, and much more) and on through college and graduate school where he learned to read books and pursue his curiosity. His passion for ministry took him through seminary and into a small, traditional, conservative church that mirrored Idaho's deep red conservatism. Lonely, underpaid and full of questions, Ben slipped into a dark spiritual depression. In this vulnerable and open interview, he tells his story of recovery, redemption and transformation - finding a faith that is open, fresh and alive. SHOW NOTES
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Ken Kemp and Betsey Newenhuyse celebrate 100 Episodes of their regular podcast series "Beach Talk." The first Beach Talk aired August 26, 2020, began as an "experiment," but has run for over two years. It's been a near-weekly conversation around headline events from the Democratic Convention through the election, the insurrection, impeachments, mass shootings, political jockeying, reading books, religious and spiritual commentary, calling out villains, and celebrating heroes. To celebrate this milestone, they welcome two cherished friends who are also fans of Beach Talk - Ken Fong (host of Asian American the Ken Fong Podcast and the Two Kens series co-host with Ken Kemp) and Darcy McKenzie (see podcast interview with Ken). SHOW NOTES.
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Ken welcomes the former guest of the podcast, Dr. Scott Chesebro.
Ken stumbled across an essay written by Scott that triggered a conversation around "First Voice Pedagogy" - a teaching philosophy that guided Scott's nearly four-decade career as the Director of the Chicago Center. The essay tells the story of Dr. Chesebro's appearance in a Florida courtroom to offer a character witness to an Imam accused of terrorist activities in the wake of the 9/11 attack on America. Scott reveals the definition of "First Voice." The Center welcomed undergraduate students nationwide to spend a semester living in the South Side of Chicago. They would earn full academic credit towards their various degrees. A seasoned sociology professor, Scott introduced his students to the rich diversity of ethnic neighborhoods, a wide range of religious expression, the arts, cuisine, musical traditions and styles, and a wealth of cultural identities. This immersion in the bountiful heritage of the South Side brought into sharp focus issues of race, gender, and religion - and no religion. Soon after 9/11 brought down the Twin Towers in Manhattan, Dr. Chesebro learned that a nearby Mosque on the South Side had been vandalized. Scott took the initiative and within days, had his students sitting on the carpet of the Mosque in dialogue with the local Imam and his Muslim friends. It's a "First Voice" experience for his students. What happens next is a story we all need to hear. SHOW NOTES
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Betsey and Ken are approaching a major milestone - 100 Beach Talks! In another wide-ranging discussion, they talk about California, hit by a serious snowstorm. Philip Yancey has made his difficult health news public. Ken and Betsey reflect on the impact of this prolific writer that editor and author Betsey Newenhuyse describes as the "Gold Standard" of Christian literature. Yancey's news triggers reflection on the realities of aging. Betsey takes Lent seriously and shares some of her annual rituals around the season. The terrible derailment in Palestine, Ohio becomes a political football at the expense of those who have suffered extreme hardship. Kevin McCarthy released a truckload of material from January 6 to Tucker Carlson. Ken shares his experience with Table Talk participants who attended an Evening with Nikole Hannah-Jones at the University of Southern California (USC).
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Ken welcomes writer, speaker and personal coach, Jill Nagle. Jill listened to Ken's Podcast online and recognized their common commitment to anti-racism. Jill's career focus has been "helping white people think about anti-racism." She recognizes that in this polarized world, relationships in the context of race and ethnicity are not getting better - they are getting worse. Jill's passion is to challenge assumptions and heal divisions. A published author, her stated goal is to show how white people will benefit from dismantling white supremacy. She pursues a "trauma-informed" approach in her training program working from "the inside out." A strong feminist, Jill shares her journey into the field of anti-racism and her life-changing encounter with her partner and friend, activist Cleo Manago. She is open about her religious background, which as you'll see, is very different from Ken's. It's a fascinating conversation you need to hear. You'll find Jill and her partner at https://www.evolutionaryworkplace.com/
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Ken and Betsey are on the countdown for 100 episodes of Beach Talk. They reflect on the terrible earthquake in Turkey and Syria. The State of the Union Address spurs commentary on the President's performance and many in the cast of characters that night - Kyrsten Sinema, George Santos, Mitt Romney, Marjorie Taylor Green, Kevin McCarthy and of course, Secretary Pete. Sarah Huckabee Sanders delivers a Republican response. FOX NEWS is in the crosshairs of a major lawsuit in which Dominion demands $1.6 billion in damages. In light of the spate of mass shootings and victims suffering at the hands of out-of-control policing, Ken and Betsey consider the rarely discussed discipline of lament. Finally, the two give their predictions for Super Bowl LVII. (Recorded on February 10, 2023)
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Ken welcomes journalist Anna Beahm. While working as a full-time journalist for Reckon Media, Anna's specialty - reporting and researching - is sex education and purity culture in America. Her articles are receiving high reviews and a wide audience. Reckon Media is "an award-winning national news organization that covers the people powering change, the challenges shaping our time, and what it means for all of us." Anna earned her degree in journalism at the University of North Alabama. Here's how Reckon describes journalist Anna Beahm: she's a "a North Alabama native living in Nashville with her husband, Ty. Anna draws on her experience growing up in a small town in Alabama to inform her reporting on the state of sex education and evangelical purity culture across America. Her reporting addresses the scientific, emotional and spiritual aspects of how purity culture and abstinence-only sex education has affected a generation of Americans." Ken and Anna engage in a frank discussion around the critical impact of these very personal issues. They play out not only in churches, youth groups and Christian institutions like schools and colleges, but (surprisingly) in the federal government as well. Anna shares her personal experience growing up in a conservative church and private Christian schools in rural Alabama. She gets vulnerable. Her awakenings in college and in her marriage prompted her rigorous investigation - and her writing. Anna's work is getting lots of attention - from young women who struggle and from other media sources. SHOW NOTES
Anna's Collection of Articles - https://www.reckon.news/author/abeahm/
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Ken Fong and Ken Kemp join together for the first in the Two Kens series for 2023. Ken Fong recently returned from a wild photo journey, tracking down the Snowy White Owl way north in the Canadian Province of Quebec. The mass shooting in Monterey Park, California, on the evening of the Lunar New Year celebration happened in Ken's former neighborhood where he served as a pastor for over three decades. He shares detail from what he has heard from friends and interviews with specialists in Asian perspectives, especially the dynamics of assimilation into American culture - both positive and negative. Ken shares the history of Monterey Park. In the 1970s, Chinese real estate developer Fred Hsieh called it the Chinese Beverly Hills - an "ethnoburb." They also reflect on the Tyre Nichols episode, reviewing the Memorial Service that attracted global attention. Finally, Ken Fong shares his experience leading a recovery group for twenty years and discovering his addiction to hubris.
Asian America The Ken Fong Podcast | The Snowy White Owl - Ken's Facebook Photography Page
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Ken welcomes back Osahon Obazuaye to discuss the recent spate of mass shootings and the widely reported release of body-cam video of the altercation that led to the tragic death of 29-year-old Tyre Nichols at about 8:30 PM, January 7, 2023, in Memphis, Tennessee. Ken solicits Osahon's perspective. He remembers that Osahon could not watch the deeply disturbing 8-minute video that revealed George Floyd's murder to the entire world. It's too triggering, Osahon told Ken back then. For the same reason, Osahon will not watch this traumatizing video either. While they both affirm the Memphis Police Chief, C.J. Davis' quick decision to fire the officers involved and just as quickly filed criminal charges, Ken and Osahon discuss the racial dynamics, comparing the overall development of truth and consequence with past episodes, of which there have been entirely too many. They review their partnership in leading their Table Talk - focussed on Nikole Hannah Jones' Project 1619. A growing and troubling political narrative is attacking "wokeness," Critical Race Theory, and specifically this project - 1619. In this Cabana talk, the two guys vigorously challenge that narrative.
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Ken and Betsey reconvene for another Beach Talk. Betsey quizzes Ken on his milestone birthday this past weekend. The two reflect on aging, keeping perspective, and the power of purpose. Ken remembers his former professors, Carl F. H. Henry, Clark Pinnock, and John R. W. Stott who represented a version of Evangelicalism that is unrecognizable today. The Atlantic Monthly posted an article entitled "The People Who Do Not Read Books," especially those who seem to take pride, like Ye (Kanye West), in declaring their utter contempt for reading. It sparks a conversation around the value of engaging the written word. Ken shares his current morning read. The two reflect on the gun violence in California this week, including the massing shootings in Monterey Park the night of the celebration of the Lunar New Year at a dance studio and then just hours later, another in Half Moon Bay. It leads to a discussion on the discipline of lament.
To wrap up, they briefly bemoan the efforts of the new House Speaker (Kevin McCarthy) to appoint key leadership roles. The former President is back on social media, but he gets reprimanded by a judge who ceremoniously threw out his "frivolous" lawsuit against his 2016 challenger (Hilliary Clinton). It's going to be a forgettable year with the Bakersfield Representative in charge.
Ken reviews Spielberg's The Fabelmans and the joys of grandparenthood, and Betsey chimes in.
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Ken welcomes back author and psychologist, Dr. Brian Rush McDonald to continue their conversation around his book A Long Surrender... his memoir detailing his spiritual and academic journey in which he sheds a toxic version of fundamentalist religion and devotes his life and career to helping others through psychotherapy. They unpack the malady of religious trauma, relating their personal stories. They discover in their quest, that both of them stumbled across an internet social site that pulls together clergy atheists. You read it right: working ministers who have given up on a belief in God. They share their reaction and their experience on the site. Their view of religion impacts their view of the Bible, too. Ken and Brian talk about literalism, inerrancy and the way in which their understanding and appreciation for the Bible has evolved. These two new friends from opposite ends of the nation have found much in common. If you are struggling with your faith, your church, your religious tribe - listen in. SHOW NOTES
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It's Martin Luther King weekend. Ken and Betsey reminisce about the impact of Dr. King on the nation and on their personal lives. Turns out, Betsey is a football fan and names her pick for the Super Bowl as they celebrate the victory of the Bills and Damar Hamlin's recovery. Classified documents are back in the headlines this week - an embarrassment to the current President and a gift to the former. The outrage around Republican Congressman George Santos' charade grows as legislators face hard decisions. Betsey catches us up on Secretary Pete as he appears more and more thanks to the glitches that plague air travelers across the country.
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Ken welcomes back writer, former pastor, and educator, Rev. Nathaniel Manderson. As the year begins, Ken invites former guests who share a common perspective on politics and religion. Ken and Nate discuss his recent article, published last fall on Salon.com. Entitled, "Theological pandemic: Why evangelicals embraced Jan. 6 and the Big Lie," they explore the question: why did the J6 committee fail to expose the religious leaders and religious ideas that energized and prompted the assault on the Capitol? How is it that many "evangelicals" resonate with the dark, destructive agenda (stolen election, anti-immigrant, anti-feminist, anti-government) promoted by the former president? We can not ignore the obvious religious aspect of J6. Nate is an unapologetic, committed Christian who is currently teaching in the Chelsea Public School District in Boston's inner city. He views the obsessions of the religious right as antithetical to a genuine commitment to the Gospel of Jesus. SHOW NOTES
Nathaniel Manderson's Author Page on Salon.com
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Ken welcomes Dr. Shandra McDonald, student success strategist, and fellow podcaster. The two met on a Civil Rights tour of the South in 2019. As she observes, Shandra's strategy took her from "clueless to Cum Laude." The two podcasters discuss the unique challenges facing students with academic ambitions - exploring Shandra's powerful personal story. She's earned three college degrees (Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice, Master of Public Administration, and Doctor of Public Administration), entered Federal service under the Outstanding Scholars Program, served as an adjunct professor, and appears as a guest lecturer. She is the author of Academic Survival: Simple Strategies for Improving Your Grades, contributing author of the textbook Government at Work: Policy Making in the Twenty-First-Century Congress, and host of the Academic Survival Podcast.
SHOW NOTES - find links to Shandra's sites and free book.
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Ken and Betsey welcome the New Year - 2023 begins. Ken reviews Pasadena's Rose Parade on Monday, January 2 with Grand Marshall Gabby Gifford. They turn to the headlines that this week's drama on the floor of Congress - the vote to select a Speaker of the House. Republicans are in a deadlock conflict, displaying governmental dysfunction on a grand scale. To date, Kevin McCarthy is unable to get more votes than Democrat nominee Hakeem Jeffries. Ken's congressman from District 31, Pete Aguilar gets lots of visibility, while Republican contenders, including Jim Jordan, and Donald T***p frustrate the process. Southwest Airlines had a major meltdown this week as Sec. Pete Buttigieg puts on the pressure. Newly elected Republican Representative George Santos emerges as a dishonest conman. Buffalo Bill Damar Hamlin recovers from a terrible hit on the football field as the nation prays. Betsey shares her New Year's resolutions.
Table Talk- Project 1619 Learn More and Register
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On this last day of the year, Ken gets sentimental. It's a retrospective of 2022, the political events, the podcast episodes, books, and movies that shaped Ken for good. He starts with a review of stats for The Beached White Male Podcast and gives special thanks to his series co-hosts, Betsey Newenhuyse, Ken Fong, and Osahon Obazuaye.
Ken Announces the Table Talk that begins on January 17 focussed on The 1619 Project, by Pulitzer Prize-winning author and podcaster, Hannah Nicole Jones.
Here's a link to learn more and register.
Here's Ken's list of references -
Ken's Podcast Review:
Books -
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As 2022 comes to a close, Ken Fong and Ken Kemp review a powerful new podcast series produced by their mutual friend, Dr. Brad Onishi (Straight White American Jesus) called Charismatic Revival Fury. Written by Institute for Islamic, Christian and Jewish Studies (ICJS), Dr. Matthew D. Taylor, the series reveals a little-known or understood movement that became a major influence in promoting the "Big Lie" (that the 2020 Presidential Election was stolen) called The New Apostolic Reformation. Founded by C. Peter Wagner and Pastor John Wimber in the 1980s and 90s at Ken Fong's alma mater, Fuller Theological Seminary, the movement emerged as prophetic support for the 45th President. It crowns Donald Trump as the biblical King Cyrus, with prophecies of his return to power for a second term, in spite of the legitimate victory of Joe Biden. While the January 6 Committee, the media, and social commentators have poured over evidence that led to the January 6 Insurrection, few have called out the inescapable religious element. It was pervasive in leading up to the event and then right there in plain view: The Jericho Marches prior the assault on the Capitol; Seven Mountain Dominionism; players like Paula White and Lance Wallnau worship leader Shaun Feucht; politicians like Sarah Palin, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, Michelle Bachman; Michael Flynn, Steve Bannon, Roger Stone, and Doug Mastriano; all heavily influenced by a massive under-the-radar movement that perverts Christianity into a raw pursuit of political power. And it demonizes anyone who dares challenge the assumptions of "Apostolic Authority." Ken Fong shares some very personal related moments that shaped his life and ministry then - and to this day.
Charismatic Revival Fury: The New Apostolic Reformation
On The Media - The Divided Dial
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Ken and Betsey close out 2022 and Season 3 with a celebration of the Christmas season. Snow begins to fall in Chicago as the two share their reflections and memories. Betsey calls it the onset of "snowpocalypse." President Volodymyr Zelenskyy speaks to a full session of congress in a rare non-partisan display of support for a nation under seige. The two reflect on common themes like "The Reason for the Season" and "The War on Christmas," memes that miss the history and tradition of celebrations around this Winter Solstice. The two remember their visits to Stonehenge. It would otherwise be a depressing time of year, if not for lights, candles, gift-giving and the story of the most celebrated birth in history - an archetype for the ages. Ken shares his Christmas playlist. They send their wishes to all, believers or not, peace and joy and wonder and love.
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In today's Beach Talk, Betsey reflects on her recent bout with the Covid virus. This week, President Joe Biden signed The Respect for Marriage Act. Betsey and Ken talk about their change in perspective on LGBTQ+. For Betsey, that changer of heart accelerated with her support of Secretary Pete Buttigieg, who appeared conspicuously at the signing. The legislation prompted Ken and Betsey to pick up on their conversation about the way in which the Bible has been used and misused. Ken shares more from Jon Meacham's influential book on Abraham Lincoln - And There Was Light. The book's focus is The Civil War. Ken notes Meacham's focus on Lincoln's spiritual journey - the books he read, the Bible he knew, and the enormous political pressure of the war. Raphael Warnock's win for the Georgia Senate seat signals a powerful impact on the Senate and the nation. Christmas is coming.
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December is here! Ken and Betsey reconvene after a great Thanksgiving in anticipation of the Christmas season. After recounting turkey weekend, they dive right into politics and religion. Three appellate judges overturn Trump appointee, Judge Aileen Cannon's appointment of a Special Master. Kanye (Ye) and Nick Fuentes make headlines. The Supreme Court orders the release of the former president's tax returns as Republicans prepare to take control of the House. Threats of investigations dominate their strategy for leadership with a particular obsession with Hunter Biden. Florida's Ron DeSantis emerges as a front-runner as Mike Pence releases his book, calling on the 45th President to apologize to the American people for entertaining Ye and Fuentes. The Respect for Marriage Act advances through Congress as one more terrible tragedy strikes Club Q in Colorado Springs. Ken reviews Jon Meacham's new book on Abraham Lincoln and the fierce debate over slavery in the run-up to the Civil War. Betsey shares her thoughts about her Twitter account and the new CEO, Elon Musk. Christmas is coming!
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Randall Balmer is a scholar, professor, author, documentarian (Emmy nominee), and Episcopalian Priest. Ken and Dr. Balmer talk about his new book, Bad Faith: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right. They discuss notable players in the movement like Senator Mark Hatfield, Harold O.J. Brown, W.A. Criswell, Paul Weyrich, Ralph Reed, and Richard Land. In the right's celebration of Ronald Reagan, the religious right movement did not, as many believe, begin as pro-Life but rather defending evangelical institutions against the IRS which required compliance with the Civil Rights law. The genesis of the Religious Right had nothing to do with abortion - it was racial segregation. The bridge to understanding the election of Donald Trump is Ronald Raegan - as evangelicals abandoned Jimmy Carter. Ronald Reagan launched his campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi at the Neshoba County Fair, confirming "State's Rights." The church basement classic, Thief in the Night. was inspired by Dr. Balmer's pastor father's sermon series on Revelation preached in his home church in Iowa in 1974. It's the story of The Rapture and Larry Norman's popular song "I wish we'd all been ready." College and graduate school introduced Dr. Balmer to the life of the mind. They remember Billy Graham's crisis of faith. In 1994, Dr. Balmer's book 1989 Mine Eyes Have Seen the Glory became a PBS Documentary and featured Tony Campolo, Dolphus Weary, Fred Price, Bill Hybels, the black church in Mississippi, Hispanic Pentecostals, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, and many others. Today, in addition to his academic profession, Dr. Balmer is an Episcopalian priest - he shares the journey that led him to his ordination in the church. Learn More at our SHOW NOTES
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For Thanksgiving week, Ken and Betsey review the documentary, God Forbid, which is much more than an exposé on the Jerry Falwell, Jr. scandal. It's a commentary on the power of the religious right and Liberty University's alliance with Trumpism. Their Beach Talk covers the mid-Term elections, and reviews Speaker Nancy Pelosi's decision to end her long and effective tenure as House leader. Ken recalls her remarkable farewell speech. Betsey laments that we are living in "two Americas." Active on Twitter, she shares her concerns about the Elon Musk takeover. The 45th President announces his candidacy for the 2024 nomination of the Republican party - but it appears to be falling flat. The two share their Thanksgiving plans and reflect on their profound gratitude.
Betsey Newenhuyse on Twitter - Betsey4Democracy @newenhuyse
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Ken welcomes his good friend of the podcast, Dr. Theon Hill. Just recently, Christianity Today published Dr. Hill's review of the recent full-length feature film that's getting high marks and a great review: Till (starring Danielle Deadwyler as Mamie Till and Jalyn Hall as Emmett). Just this fall, Dr. Hill hosted a conversation at Wheaton College featuring author David Tell (Remembering Emmett Till), who was also the lead investigator in the Emmett Till Memory Project, and Emmett Till's cousin, Rev. Wheeler Parker (Argo Temple Church of God in Christ in Summit, Illinois). That fateful summer of 1955, Pastor Parker, accompanied Emmett on that visit to Money, Mississippi. He witnessed both the incident at the market when Emmett "whistled" at Carolyn Bryant, and was in the house in the middle of the night when Emmett was kidnapped by her husband. Dr. Hill shares their conversation. Ken and Dr. Hill discuss the relevance of the Emmett Till story on race in America and in the evangelical church. SHOW NOTES
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Betsey and Ken review the intense emotional impact of election day on the nation and on themselves personally. Betsey has been invested in the process, volunteering, addressing envelopes, and participating in social media (see her on Twitter @newenhuyse). "There is so much at stake" - Democracy is on the ballot. The morning after, both were relieved. Both Illinois (Pritzker vs. Bailey) and Pennsylvania (Fetterman vs Oz) signaled the retention of Democratic control of the Senate. House races and gubernatorial races were a repudiation of the Trumpist agendas of election denial, women's rights, voter suppression, and most important of all, the attack on democracy. The two comment on Trumpist candidates Kari Lake in Arizona and Ron DeSantis in Florida. Michigan is a strong example of the impact of the election with the victory of Governor Gretchen Whitmer. Ken shares his evening taking in the Aaron Sorkin stage play To Kill a Mockingbird at the Pantages in Hollywood starring Richard Thomas as Atticus Finch. Pete Buttigieg has had a high profile during the election.
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Ken Fong and Ken Kemp reconvene for a morning after review of the mid-term elections. The predicted "Red Wave," touted by the former President and his political imitators, failed to materialize - more like a ripple. On his podcast, Asian America the Ken Fong Podcast, Fong interviewed Christopher Huang, a professional photographer, and Hollywood blogger. Huang has written about race in Hollywood cinema in his commentary on Disney's soon-to-be-released remake of "The Little Mermaid," featuring a young woman of color as Ariel. The dominance of whiteness in the movie industry mirrors the "whiteness" at work in the Republican party, championed by the newly elected Governor of Florida, now with Presidential ambitions. Rather than a gracious acceptance speech, Ron DeSantis poured fuel on the culture wars, declaring his primary target: "Wokism" which, he claims, is "destroying America." The two Kens discuss how the fierce battle for control of both the House and the Senate have shown surprising strength from Democratic candidates (like Raphael Wornack, and John Fetterman) and the diminishment of Donald Trump and those Trumpian candidates (like Mehmet Oz and Herschel Walker). They are keeping their eyes on Nevada, Arizona, and Georgia. SHOW NOTES
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Ken welcomes David Myles, professor, public speaker, pastor, theologian, author and fellow participant in the Civil Rights Tour of the South this past summer. A state champion javelin thrower in college, David, along with Ken, graduated with a Master of Divinity degree from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois. David's career has taken him to pastorates in Ohio and currently in Minnesota. In both locations, David's community engagement put him in the arena of law enforcement and community development. In both states, a racial crisis erupted. At age 22, John Crawford III was shot by police in Dayton, Ohio in 2014, not far from David's church. He was holding a BB gun in a Walmart store - considering a purchase - when he was tragically killed by a SWAT team that responded to an "active shooter" 911 call. A few years later, David was an associate pastor in Minneapolis when in May of 2020, George Floyd was killed as the nation watched, triggering a massive global reaction of both protest and reform. With Ken, David shares his remarkable first-hand experience as a pastor, theologian, and community activist, applying a biblical response. David was a valuable contributor to Ken's podcast series, Truth Quest - Exploring the History of Race in America. SHOW NOTES
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Ken welcomes back Pastor Suzie Lind from Brentwood, Tennessee for her second appearance on the podcast. Suzie is a teaching pastor at Journey Church where she and her co-pastors are asking big questions about politics, race, religious freedom, and the unwelcome trend toward Christian nationalism. When she appeared with Mike Erre on his podcast, Voxology, she told the story of her family's connection to Iran. Suzie was born in Tehran under the rule of the Pahlavi dynasty under Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi who had worked to "westernize" and modernize the nation. Just before the revolution that overturned his reign in 1979 and reversed his policies under the rigid rule of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, her family fled the country for London and then the United States, leaving a large extended family. Just weeks ago, Mahsa Amini was arrested, beaten, and killed by "morality police" on the streets of Tehran for failure to dress properly. Her story has sparked enormous rage and protests all over the country resulting in arrests and confinement in "re-education camps." For Pastor Suzie, it's personal. It's family. It has triggered introspection and activism as she rethinks her own identity as a Jesus follower with family roots in this Islamic nation. The dangers of morality police and "re-education camps" hit home here in our own country. Ken and Suzie unpack the events and the implications for us today. Suzie Lind is co-host of the podcast Journey Now. SHOW NOTES
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Betsey makes two announcements regarding 1) her complete retirement and 2) a newly calendared trip to Israel, which requires her to secure a U.S Passport. Politics and family gatherings don't always mix - but Betsey's new extended family has opened new doors of understanding and perspective. A great horned owl brings them all together. Ken shares his three visits to Israel. The MidTerms are just two weeks away. Raphael Wornack debates Herschel Walker. John Fetterman appears in a face-off with Dr. Mehmet Oz. Many states are in play, with control of both the Senate and House, including California. Ezra Klein interviews author Mark Leibovich regarding his recent book, Thank You for Your Servitude. His thesis: to understand today's G.O.P., we must understand what Leibovich calls, the Trump enablers. Paul Ryan, Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham, Kevin McCarthy, J.D. Vance, and many more have, by their silence, turned the Republican Party into the Party of Trump. Ken identifies government by the consent of the governed, free and fair elections, and the peaceful transfer all at risk in this election cycle. Lawsuits and armed guards have targeted Maricopa County in Arizona during this election. CNN's expose on Rupert Murdoch shows how the conservative media complex has been the enabler-in-chief for the extreme right. Betsey projects Secretary Pete as the next President of the USA in 2024
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Last summer, for his Truth Quest series, Ken asked his friend Osahon to read from Dr. Martin Luther King's timeless Letter from a Birmingham Jail. That reading became one of the most popular features of the entire series. In this episode of their series "Cabana Talks," Osahon shares what is was like to connect with Dr. King's powerful letter and how it remains intensely relevant today. They discuss the challenges of "pastoral burnout," which is increasingly prevalent in the context of political pressures and polarized people. Ken brings back Osahon's powerful, dramatic reading for this episode.
Hear Ken's Series *Truth Quest - especially Episode 5 - Birmingham, Alabama
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*NOTE - Ken's Truth Quest series should not be confused with another podcast using the same name.
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Betsey celebrated her birthday with a visit to her long time home-town with her daughter and grand-daughter. Sunday's sermon sparked a conversation over the preacher's warning to refuse the "idolatry of political engagement." Betsey and Ken react to some pastors who either align with Trumpism or others who attempt to find a middle path. They review the final presentation of the Select Committee on the January 6 Attack - including the unanimous vote to subpoena the former President. There is new evidence wrapped in with prior evidence that validates the President's full responsibility for the events of January 6 - both in the execution and the planning of the assault on the Capitol and the attempt to frustrate the Election results. The Committee revealed video proof - before the election, Roger Stone, Steve Bannon and others spoke of the then President's strategy to claim victory before the completion of the vote count. If the count trended against him, he would cry FRAUD! The Supreme Court formally and categorically refused to hear the former President's request to thwart the investigation of the Department of Justice into the illegal possession of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago. Paul Ryan predicts that if the former President runs again in 2024, he will be defeated. Betsey shares the latest news regarding Sec. Pete, and describes her political activism, encouraging us all to get to work.
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REPRISE - Ken welcomes Rev. David Swanson, author of the powerfully provocative book, Redisciplining the White Church from Cheap Diversity to True Solidarity. Once again on the podcast, two white guys talk about race - specifically race in the American white evangelical church. David started a church in the historic Bronzeville district in the South Side of Chicago. David tells the story of his own awakenings. The white church is predisposed to resist conversation about racial history, white dominance, and the harmful impact of the conservative propaganda machine. The two share their journeys of self-discovery - awakening to the problems of whiteness. Swanson quotes many, like Frederick Douglass, James Baldwin, and Bryan Stevenson. Ida B. Wells (who battled lynching in the late 1800s) challenged Dwight L. Moody. The Emmett Till Law of 2020 was just signed the week of this recording, making lynching a federal hate crime.
Structural, systemic, and institutional racism is a reality that must be taken into account. David is a great proponent of the Civil Rights Tour.
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Ken welcomes back historian and author, Martyn Whittock, from his home outside Bath in England. The two got acquainted when Ken interviewed Martyn (S2E58) about his new book. They discussed the misappropriation of biblical prophesy throughout history, and especially today. Since then, Ken learned that Martyn was a popular television guest in the U.K., offering historical context for the week-long series of events surrounding the remembrance of Queen Elizabeth II, and the long-anticipated accession of King Charles to the throne. Ken shares his personal connection through his grandmother, born in London in 1903, and Ken's visit to London the same week Princess Diana was memorialized in August of 1997. Ken and Martyn trace the events from Balmoral in Scotland to London - Buckingham Palace, Westminster Cathedral, and Windsor Castle. Ken shares his mixed emotions, citing friends who just cannot watch - the conspicuous wealth, the history of colonization, and the display of "theocracy." Martyn brings a rich perspective to it all, bringing context and depth. Ken's affection for his grandmother's homeland and Martyn's knowledge and appreciation of America's perspective makes for a lively, informative, and stimulating exchange. Thank you, Martyn Whittock!
SHOW NOTES - find Martyn's books, links to television appearances, and additional biographical information.
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Ken and Betsey just get the news that New York Attorney General, Latitia James announced a sprawling civil suit against the former President, his companies, and his family. A myriad of details and violations have been made public, adding to the collection of legal actions pending against him that are still in play. As the headlines continue to feature the 45th President, Betsey expresses the hope that we might soon shift the national focus to a better future. Ken Burns just released The US and the Holocaust, linking Germany of the 20s and 30s with the United States - showing the support for the Nazi regime in this country. Both Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh and Father Charles Coughlin engaged in virulent anti-Semitism. The 45th's speechwriter, Stephen Miller, brings Ken Burns' documentary up to the present day in those dreadful political rallies. The United Kingdom bids farewell to Queen Elizabeth II. Ken shares the personal connection that draws him into the drama playing out in Scotland and England this week. Secretary Pete and Lucy Lark get honorable mentions.
Listen to the full series: TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America
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After a short break, the TWO KENS are back. Ken welcomes Ken Fong to talk about a sermon he preached recently at the historic First Baptist Church in Pasadena. His subject is The Parable of the Good Samaritan. After listening, Kemp was deeply moved by Fong's creative take on the familiar story. It corresponded powerfully with Kemp's experience on the Civil Rights Tour of the South in June and on the production of the seven-part summer podcast series he calls TRUTH QUEST. Fong understands Jesus to focus not just on the Samaritan's sensitivity and generosity to a victim who traditionally held him in contempt, but the lessons about privilege and vulnerability and the healing and wholeness that comes from the margins. Ken Fong pays tribute to the Truth Quest series as Ken Kemp embraces the pulpit work of his retired pastor friend. SHOW NOTES (complete list of TWO KENS podcasts)
Listen to the series: TRUTH QUEST: Exploring The History of Race in America
Asian America: The Ken Fong Podcast || THE TWO KENS
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Ken welcomes Dr. Brian Rush McDonald, former pastor, missionary, musician, author, and now a psychotherapist. Dr. McDonald found Ken's podcast, and the two connected. After Ken read Brian's book, A LONG SURRENDER - A Memoir About Losing My Religion, the two connected. From Alexandria, VA, Brian tells his story of awakenings - from high school "Jesus Freak" to Bob Jones University, on to Taiwan as a GARB missionary, back to Jerry Falwell's Liberty University for graduate work, and after six years pastoring a church (preaching in Mandarin and English), a Ph.D. at The College of William and Mary. It's a journey of evolving faith. They talk about M. Scott Peck's stages of faith development. For Dr. McDonald, it's a journey from religion to freedom. SHOW NOTES
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Ken welcomes first-time guest, author Martyn Whittock to discuss his recent book, The End Times, Again? -2000 Years of the Use & Misuse of Biblical Prophecy. While listening to the BWM podcast at his home near Bath in England (the UK), Martin reached out to Ken to discuss his book's themes and how they play out in the US... and much more. Ken shares his concern about the misappropriation of eschatology (the study of the last times) in American politics. Martin agrees and expands the conversation to include Brexit, the Economic Union (EU), and Russia not only on the contemporary scene but throughout history. The author of more than fifty books, Whittock shares his early fascination with evangelical Christianity. His father, a conservative Methodist minister, gave him an early immersion in prophetic teachings - much of which Martyn had to rework as he studied history and religion at the University of Bristol. The conversation takes them through a millennium of European and American history and touches on the Viking raids, The Crusades, the English Civil War of 1640, the Pope in Rome, Napoleon and on to Mikhail Gorbachev, Henry Kissinger, Vladimir Putin, the election of Donald Trump and his "evangelical support." The misuse of Bible prophesy has contributed to Christian Nationalism, and conspiracy theories (including Q-Anon) in America and in Europe as well. Whittock, a self-proclaimed Bible-believing evangelical Christian, shares his ideas regarding a proper approach to prophetic and apocalyptic literature. SHOW NOTES
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After a six-week break, Ken welcomes back Betsey Newenhuyse for their regular Beach Talk. Betsey first shares her response to Ken's summer series - TRUTH QUEST. She notes that she felt as though she had been invited into Dr. Martin Luther King's "Beloved Community." They reflect on the beginnings of their podcast conversations, nearly two years ago. When they last met in July 2022, things were looking grim as the mid-term elections approached - both the House and the Senate looked as though they would flip. But the tide appears to be turning. The Dobbs v Jackson decision by the Supreme Court overturning Roe v Wade triggered a backlash against a partisan court. The legal woes mount for the former President (Mar A Lago search warrant and more) who is also the presumed leader of his party. Legislative advances for climate change, student debt, health care, and infrastructure seem to be turning the nation toward optimism as inflation flattens, housing costs level off, and gas prices drop. Betsey shares her plan of action as election day approaches and the two compare notes on the joys of grandparenthood.
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In this final episode of the summer series TRUTH QUEST, our travelers make their way to Selma and the Edmund Pettus Bridge. In March of 1965, civil rights protesters were met by a lineup of armed police (many on horseback) with attack dogs and billy clubs who ordered them to turn back. When the marchers refused, they were brutally attacked on a day that became known as Bloody Sunday. SNCC Director John Lewis (later Congressman) was viciously beaten and nearly died that day. We take a ceremonial walk across that bridge. We proceed to Birmingham, known in the 50s and 60s as "Bombingham," where Martin Luther King (along with Ralph Abernathy and Fred Shuttlesworth) were imprisoned in 1963 for their civil disobedience. We hear a reading of King's Letter from a Birmingham Jail (Osahon Obazuaye). Several months after King wrote his letter, a bomb exploded on a Sunday morning as the congregation gathered for worship in the basement of the 16th Street Baptist Church, killing four young girls. A fifth, Sarah Collins, lost her sister and best friends but survived the blast. All these years later, she met with our group in the memorial park across from the church and shared her story. Ken wraps the series with some reflections, from several fellow travelers and then some concluding reflections of his own. SHOW NOTES
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
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Our exploration of the history of race in America takes us to Montgomery, Alabama. Harvard Attorney Bryan Stevenson opened the offices of the Equal Justice Initiative in the city where Rosa Parks refused to yield her seat on a public bus and where a young Dr. Martin Luther King became pastor of Dexter Street Baptist Church. The best-selling book which became a full-length feature film, JUST MERCY, tells the story of Bryan's work uncovering the incarceration of innocent victims and exposing the racial inequities of the Criminal Justice System. The Legacy Museum takes our contributors through the history of Slavery to Segregation to Incarceration to Lynching, highlighting the real resistance and the champions of the Civil Rights Movement. The Peace and Justice Memorial is designed to acknowledge and honor more than 4,000 documented lynchings that took place in some 800 counties in the United States. This episode is a moving account as our team processed, engaged, and learned, sharing their personal responses. SHOW NOTES
Meet our contributors.
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
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Ken invites John Williams back to the podcast, this time to talk about the summer series, TRUTH QUEST. John and Ken review the origins of the Civil Rights (C.R.) Tour of the South, and John's journey from his law practice to his first C.R. Tour. His experience became a catalyst for leaving his law practice behind. A vision was born to introduce others to the history of race in America - to educate, inspire and transform. The Center has grown exponentially, influencing not only Fellowship Monrovia but churches, non-profits, and individuals across the nation by means of the tours, workshops, Table Talks, and curriculum development. In this conversation, John reflects on his personal meeting with the late Civil Rights icon and Congressman, John Lewis. John Williams has been in "Good Trouble" ever since, along with Ken. SHOW NOTES
Meet our contributors.
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
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The tour bus delivers our travelers for two days in historic Memphis, Tennessee. The National Civil Rights Museum rests on the site of the Lorraine Motel, where Dr. Martin Luther King lost his life to an assassin's bullet while standing on the balcony with his trusted friends, Jesse Jackson, Ralph Abernathy, and Andrew Young. The Museum is housed in a comprehensive series of buildings that outlines the history of Slavery from 1619 to the present day. Exhibits feature the story of resistance and the champions of the Civil Rights Movement. Our tour explores the I AM A MAN Memorial Park and the Sanitation Worker's Strike of 1968 that brought Dr. King to Memphis. Then, we move on to the Burkle House, commonly known as the Slave Haven, a stop on the Underground Railroad. STAX RECORDS in Memphis launched American soul music, celebrated in the STAX Museum where careers were launched including Otis Redding, Isaac Hayes, the Staple Singers, Booker T. & the M.G.'s, and many others. Spoken word artist Rev. Jesse Jackson and comedians Moms Mabley and Richard Pryor got their start in the STAX studios. We end this edition of TRUTH QUEST on Beale Street, the home of B.B. King, Ida B. Wells, and The Memphis Blues. The grand boulevard became the inspiration for James Baldwin's fifth novel If Beale Street Could Talk. SHOW NOTES
In this episode, we happily introduce Sasha Lunginbuhl.
Meet our contributors.
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
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In this installment of Ken's TRUTH QUEST series, we continue to relive the Civil Rights Tour of the South. Dr. John Perkins, author of 17 books, founder of Voice of Calvary and Harambee, and Christian activist in the Civil Rights movement welcomes our thirty-nine travelers in Jackson Mississippi. At age 92, he brings a Sunday morning message, entertains questions, and signs books. The bus goes to downtown Jackson to the Masonic Temple, headquarters for the Mississippi NAACP, SNCC, and SCLC. The group is welcomed by a group of senior citizens who were active in the Civil Rights Movement in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. They are, each one, "Living Legends." The following morning, the group arrives at the Emmett Till Intrepid Center in Money, Mississippi, a memorial to young Emmett Till who was brutally murdered and became an icon of the movement. Fourteen of the thirty-nine travelers share their reflections, ending with a beautiful dinner at the home of Albert Tate's (Founding Pastor of Fellowship Monrovia) mother. SHOW NOTES
Meet our contributors.
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
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In this second installment of Ken's special series, TRUTH QUEST - Exploring the History of Race in America, we launch the Civil Rights tour of the South in New Orleans. The Whitney Plantation in St. John the Baptist Parish is a non-profit dedicated to preserving the history and legacy of slavery in Louisiana. You'll hear an in-depth description of the exhibits, displays, and elegant plantation house and how those displays impacted our team of pilgrims. In this episode, we are invited to a team "debrief," in which several share their personal responses to a history that has been hidden until now. Then Ken takes us to the French Quarter on a bustling Saturday evening in the heart of the New Orleans. Under the tutelage of master-guide, Leon A. Waters, the team wanders down the Mississippi River and Washington Artillery Park, to Jackson Square, by the St. Louis Cathedral, the Federal Courthouse, and the Slave Exchange, along the narrow streets filled with iconic architecture, surrounded by eager crowds, street vendors and musicians, lively multitudes lined up for the annual Pride Month Parade - New Orleans style. SHOW NOTES
Meet our contributors.
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
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TRUTH QUEST brings Ken's participation on the Civil Rights Tour of the South to his podcast. This is the first of five episodes, bringing sixteen voices (of 39 travelers) to the microphone. Each will share what motivated them to join the tour, how the history and sites impacted them, and the commitments that emerge from this quest. In future episodes, we'll visit the iconic sites, from New Orleans to Jackson to Memphis to Montgomery to Selma, and finally, Birmingham.
Meet our contributors.
Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.
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Ken takes ten minutes to catch his valued listeners up on what's been happening in his world and what's coming up in the podcast. He's been busy putting together a five-part series on the Civil Rights Tour. It's intended to counter the current attack on racial history in America, where CRT has been demonized and talk about race has been silenced in schools, libraries, and government agencies. Ken's working titles are "Truth Quest" or maybe "Wade in the Water."
Stay Tuned.
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There is a heaviness in the air - Betsey and Ken have personal connections to Highland Park, Illinois. The review events of July 4th and the horrific shooting by yet another 18-year-old with powerful weapons, legally obtained. America's obsession with guns is nothing new. The dark web is a place that glamorizes and glorifies violence. Ken talks about two California friends who visited Top's Market in Buffalo, New York, and met with a victim's family. Anger can be channeled into purposeful change. The January 6 hearings have filled in the detail with powerful witnesses who have exposed the planning which led to the insurrection. While conservatives (Fox News) complain about the disruption of Justice Kavanaugh's dinner by protesters, at the same time they downplay the assault on the US Capitol. All of this hard news seems to be prompting a positive response - we've got work to do as the mid-terms approach.
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Slayer Pete on Fox News Sunday
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Ken welcomes back Nate Manderson, the guest who became one of Ken's most popular interviews. An outspoken and deeply committed Christian, Nate writes regularly for Salon.com. He's a fierce critic of the brand of conservative evangelicalism that lines up behind the former President and (his) Supreme Court. According to Nate, many evangelicals have become modern-day Pharisees. Proximity to power becomes more important than Christian character. Nate gives his take on the reversal of Roe v. Wade. Ken and Nate share their separate experiences in Glendora, Mississippi, where Emmett Till was brutally murdered. Ken concludes that Nate's life is remarkably "Jesus-like." His writing has called out struggling pastors, wounded Christians, and curious seekers - he's an encourager and thinker of the first rank. SHOW NOTES
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After a break, Betsey Newenhuyse is back for Beach Talk. Ken reviews his experience on the Civil Rights Tour of the South. The Select Committee to Investigate the January 6 Attack on the Capitol called a special meeting, introducing Cassidy Hutchinson, top aid to Mark Meadows, White House Chief of Staff to the former President. Her testimony takes us into the White House as the violent attack on the Capitol as Congress convened to affirm the state-certified electors of the Electoral College. Ken and Betsey sort through the evidence. It's reminiscent of the Watergate Hearings and the breakout testimony of White House Counsel, John Dean. They also review the decision of the Supreme Court to reverse Roe V. Wade, exposing the court's conservative majority as a political friend of the "Pro-Life" political faction. It's the Federalist Society's dream come true - and more is to come. The celebration and claims that the Pro-Life movement will suddenly provide care for needy women sound hollow and disingenuous. Lucy Lark turns 6 months.
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Ken marks a major milestone: 200 episodes since the podcast was launched in April of 2020. He reflects on the journey that has transformed his life, cemented his friendships and broadened his horizons. A good number of Ken's listeners. partners and friends check in, including Ken's life partner Carolyn who makes her debut appearance sharing her perspective on her husbands wild retirement project.
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NEW EPISODE - Ken Kemp is back! He shares his nine-day Civil Rights Tour of the South with Ken Fong and his plans to create a series of podcasts unpacking the high impact of the trip with 38 other pilgrims. Recorded just hours after the Roe V. Wade decision was announced, the two Kens take a deep dive into the issues. Justices Alito and Thomas write disturbing opinions relative to the ruling. Justice John Roberts rides the fence. The three appointees of the former President contradict their testimony in each of their hearings. Ken Fong shares his daughter's reaction and the years his church was situated directly across the street from a busy abortion clinic, with protestors at the ready every Sunday.
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While Ken is out of town, we are bringing back the BEST OF the Beached White Male Podcast.
In Part II, Ken and Brian pick up where they left off in Part I, beginning with a discussion of the "persecution complex" so common in the world of religion. Brian unpacks the way in which religious beliefs can be weaponized, often causing harm. They talk in-depth about Brian's new book, Faith after Doubt, some of the characters in the stories he tells, and then we explore the four stages of spiritual development. Brian's friendship with Rachel Held Evans comes to life as well as a visit to a Christian campus that required a bodyguard. SHOW NOTES
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While Ken is traveling on the Civil Rights Tour, he's replaying some of his top podcasts. He's also asking you to check in with your thoughts on the celebration of his 200th Episode.
Ken welcomes author, speaker, activist, and public theologian, BRIAN McLAREN to the podcast. It's a rich conversation, worthy of two parts. In Part I, Ken and Brian explore the early years that informed Brian's pursuit of books, theology, the Jesus movement, Calvinism, and a pastorate that lasted 24 years. He began as a professor of English literature, but his curiosity about the world and his quest to integrate it with his faith gave birth to a series of books that have had a powerful impact on a wide audience, including the Beached White Male. SHOW NOTES.
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While Ken is traveling on the Civil Rights Tour, he's replaying some of his top podcasts. He's also asking you to check in with your thoughts on the celebration of his 200th Episode.
For five weeks, Ken Kemp facilitated a virtual discussion around the Scene On Radio Podcast series, Seeing White - all 14 episodes. All ten participants were white and represented several generations - white people exploring "whiteness" together. In this episode of the BWM, you'll hear about the TABLE TALKS project from Albert Tate, John Williams, Theon Hill, and a special word from author and activist, Brenda Salter McNeil who has just published a ground-breaking new book: Becoming Brave. You'll also hear from several Table Talk participants - Ron Mahurin, Angela Mia De la Vega, and Scott Young; and at one point, they turn the table and interview Ken. SPECIAL NOTE: Because of the disturbing current events, Ken opens with a very personal statement you won't want to miss. Learn more from our SHOW NOTES.
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While Ken is traveling on the Civil Rights Tour, he's replaying some of his top podcasts. He's also asking you to check in with your thoughts on the celebration of his 200th Episode.
Ken welcomes back his friend John Williams, the Director of the Center for Racial Reconciliation. Recorded on January 13, after the insurrection and before the inauguration, Ken and John talk about the assault on the Capitol. John's work at the Center has put him in a position to counsel some 200 pastors, most of them white pastors with predominantly white congregations, all of whom are eager to address the issues of race. John is about to launch a new podcast he calls Disruptive Peacemakers. The Center is also launching a second series of Table Talks. Ken will serve as a facilitator for a second time. The podcast was released just after the inauguration ceremonies - Ken pays tribute to 22 year old Young Poet Laureate Amanda Gorman and her poem, The Hill We Climb. SHOW NOTES
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While Ken is traveling on the Civil Rights Tour, he's replaying some of his top podcasts. He's also asking you to check in with your thoughts on the celebration of his 200th Episode.
d Kale, M.Div., 1963 professional kayaker, was a student at Yale Divinity School in 1961 when a generous professor funded is participation in a Freedom Ride to Jackson, MS. He was arrested, put in jail along with other men and women, black and white. Because the jails were full, he and the others (including the famed William Sloan Coffin), were transferred to the Mississippi State Penitentiary at Parchman. Ken met Ed while kayaking on Lake Superior - and then met at the historic Old Rittenhouse Inn in Bayfield, WI for an interview. They talked about their experience as seminarians, and then Ed's journey which includes his friendship with James Farmer (the civil rights champion who organized the Freedom Rides), Carol Ruth Silver (author and fellow Freedom Rider) and the incomparable author and philosopher James Baldwin. Learn more about Ed Kale in our SHOW NOTES.
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Ken tells the story of the CIVIL RIGHTS TOUR, June 2022 - Episode 200 is coming!
Ken welcomes author, spiritual director, activist, and preaching minister at the University Church of Christ (Pepperdine), Eric Wilson. The two met at a spiritual retreat for the facilitators of the Center for Racial Reconciliation where Eric led a day of refreshment and restoration around the theme of Brush Arbor. "It's soul work," Eric says. The two take us back to Eric's early formation years growing up in St. Louis, Missouri. His academic work took him from the University of Missouri to UCLA, where he earned an ABD in Theater Literature, History and Criticism. Eric's work as a Certified Spiritual Director and Life Coach contributes to this conversation filled with wisdom, insight, and authenticity.
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REPRISE: The first episode of Season 3, Ken brought back friend of the podcast, Dr. David Gushee. He had just released a new book - Introducing Christian Ethics (release date - January 2022 ). David has just been named Senior Research Fellow at International Baptist Theological Study Centre at Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam. David will present a scholarly lecture entitled "Defending democracy from its Christian enemies." Ethics defined: Critical reflection on Human Morality. It's not just an academic exercise. It's for us all. Gushee addresses creation, patriarchy, white supremacy, abortion, sexuality, marriage, politics, crime, and more. It's not just what we don't believe, it's about what we affirm. David identifies covenant as a core ethical value - in both public and private life. David addresses race. Howard Thurman's work, Jesus and the Disinherited gives David a renewed sense of the identity of Jesus and a sensitivity to the marginalized - and the relationship of all this to the Kingdom of God. SHOW NOTES
Original Release: Jan 1, 2022
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Ken releases his Beach Talk with Betsey from his quarantine in the BWM Studios.
It's been one more heartbreaking week... tragedy upon tragedy. The shooting in Ulvade begs the question of gun laws - an 18-year-old purchases two AR 15s, with the capacity to kill scores of people in minutes. The shooting in Buffalo begs the question of race and white supremacy. Politicians who deflect both questions are exposed for who they are. Coach Steve Kerr displays the rage many of us feel. The Governor of Texas assures the NRA that he will not give in - Beto O'Rourke confronts Governor Abbott in a press conference. While Ken does not support this namesake from George, Brian Kemp stands up to the former President and wins the Republican nomination for Governor. Ken and Betsey talk about the ambiguities of the 2024 presidential contest - can Joe Biden win a second term?
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Ken and Osahon Obazuaye talk about hip-hop and one of rap's biggest names: Kanye West, who just won Billboard's top honors as a "Christian artist." Ken remembers Bob Dylan's conversion to Christianity and his classic album, Slow Train Coming (1979). Osahon names Kanye's first and favorite album - College Drop Out as the one that captured his imagination and keen loyalty. His follow-up album, Through the Wire, was born out of a tragic automobile accident that could well have ended Kanye's life. Kanye made the general headlines with a criticism of George Bush. Kanye and his mother, a college English professor, were very close. When she died at age 58 due to a botched surgery, Kanye drifted into deep grief. The two discuss Kanye's high-profile conversion to Christianity. Jesus is King, according to Osahon, is not a high-quality album. Osahon discusses both salvation and "soul care." Donda, named for his mother, is the album that won the Billboard Awards (primarily related to the volume of sales). The Kanye West Foundation has engaged a broad range of causes, few of the right-wing.
WATCH FOR SPECIAL EPISODE #200
Osahon's Podcast with his friends on Kanye West - Let 'em Speak.
The Pastor Adam Tyson Interview
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Episode 197
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Ken and Betsey bid farewell to Carla. They celebrate Chicago's wonders. Tragically, Buffalo was the scene of yet another deadly shooting, perpetrated by a young assailant, heavily armed, with evil intent. His reasons were disturbingly clear - his manifesto rooted in white supremacy. The same weekend, there was a fatal shooting in Geneva Presbyterian Church in Orange County, CA. The mid-term elections loom large, with great consequence. The perils of a Republican victory in the midterms included Mitch McConnell as Senate Majority Leader, Kevin McCarthy as Speaker of the House, and Jim Jordan as (probable) House Judiciary Committee Chair. Frank Schaeffer, son of Francis Schaeffer, has repudiated his role in the 1980s in giving birth to the far-right agenda so dominant today. Secretary Pete tours Europe to lead a presidential delegation to the Invictus Games.
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Ken Kemp (the Beached White Male) joins Ken Fong (Asian American - the Ken Fong Podcast) in the wake of yet another horrific hate crime in Buffalo, New York. The shooter, Payton Gendron, left a long manifesto that centered on "replacement theory," a basic tenet of white supremacy. For the shooter, it justified his crime. This tragic event begs the question: what are the stories we tell ourselves? Our stories often enable us to dismiss the truths that we prefer to ignore or worse, deny. Tucker Carlson, the Fox News host of the most popular cable "news" program on cable television, regularly promotes the theory. The two Kens unpack the history and meaning of the theory, sourced in the literature of white supremacy. They discuss a recent lengthy, in-depth article published in The Atlantic, "How Politics Poisoned the Evangelical Church." Pastors across America are caught between the warring factions of the culture wars. Some, like Greg Lock of the Global Vision Church in Tennessee, have sold out to the conspiracy theories and racial animus of the far right. The two Kens agree: replacement theory must be called out and rejected. Diversity is good. It enriches our lives and contributes to our flourishing.
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Ken welcomes the newly appointed Associate Rector of the historic All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena. Ken got to know "Chase" (his preferred name) at the Center for Racial Reconciliation. They open with a discussion of his first sermon at the church - a powerful, high-energy, prophetic word. A graduate of Fuller Theological Seminary, Chase has thought deeply about the dynamics of both "blackness" and "whiteness." In his new position, technically - "Father Chase" - believes his calling is to make the gospel good news for all people. Chase shares his stories of awakenings, from his awareness of enslavement in his ancestry that is rooted in Guyana in the Caribbean, to high school and on to college in New York. His Episcopal legacy goes all the way back to the Anglicanism of the colonial era. As a high school kid, he fell in love (Tupac) with rap - and engaged in freestyle rap competitions. As an English and Political Science major at the State College of New York in Albany, he got serious about his faith. In seminary (Fuller Theological Seminary), he encountered a "white, Eurocentric" version of Christianity. His awareness drove him into a broader exploration, especially with professors Dr. Ralph Watkins, Dr. Love Seacrest, Dr. Mignon Jacobs, and Dr. Anthea Butler. They talk about the "black exodus" at FTS. Chase takes issue with the label "affirming" and would rather talk about what is means to be human. Chase addresses the current backlash against conversations around race and racial history in America. SHOW NOTES
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Betsey attended a speech by Secretary Pete live and in person at the University of Chicago's Institute of Politics with David Axelrod. From the third row seated next to Lucy Lark's mom, she gives a first-person account of Pete Buttigieg's performance. Betsey makes the case for a presidential run. A leaked Supreme Court draft of the ruling to overturn Roe v. Wade dominates the headlines, reawakening the national firestorm of debate over abortion. JD Vance (author and former never-Trumper), with the former president's support, won the Republican nomination for Senator from Ohio and will run against the Democrat nominee, Tim Ryan. Michigan State Senator Mallory McMorrow gave a powerful speech on the Michigan state senate floor, triggered by accusations by Senator Lana Theis. Looks like Lucy Lark's parents are in the market for a mini-van.
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Ken welcomes long-time friend of the podcast, Dr. Theon Hill. Dr. Hill is a professor at Wheaton College, an Aspen Civil Society Fellow and emerging social intellectual. The two reminisce over the first episode of the BWM podcast where Dr. Hill was Ken's very first guest. Then, they have a lively reaction to the Grove City College report that condemns Critical Race Theory and disassociates from chapel speaker, Dr. Jemar Tisbey. Dr. Hill expresses his weariness over invitations to debate the realities of racism in America - he's done with those fruitless conversations. Theon explains the engagement of Dr. Martin Luther King, Bell Hooks, Margaret Thatcher and others to explore values and ventures that lead to the common good in local communities. He has developed a focus on local black-owned businesses to expand markets and reach, creating jobs and careers in community implementing his work at the Copenhagen Business School. He shares the influence of Cornell West, James Baldwin, Malcolm X and Eddie Glaude, Jr., who has become his personal mentor and friend. Dr. Hill admits his concern that democracy is slipping away in America, unable to embrace pluralism. In view of the Supreme Court's attempt to reverse Roe v. Wade, the two discuss the problems of constitutional "originalism." There is a cloud of witnesses we need to hear. Theon is committed to international empowerment and his church's commitment to justice and mercy. SHOW NOTES
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REPRISE Philip Yancey's courageous and penetrating new book, his memoir - Where the Light Fell - will be released on October 5. There's a big audience for Philip's story. There are over 100 million claim to have experienced Christian fundamentalism and 25 million more identify as "exvangelicals." Brother Marshall, a musical prodigy, had perfect pitch. Philip's father contracted polio and died when Philip was only 18 months old. Ken notes that Philip's experience in segregationalist fundamentalism is extreme. Paul Van Gorder, Bob Jones, Jr., Lester Maddox all would come to Philip's church. The Prophecy Conferences were an annual event, providing much to fear. Tony Evans came to the church, and was turned away. Philip's mother, a well known Bible teacher, struggled to make ends meet but never quite recovered from her husbands passing. The three Yancey's lived in a mobile home, located in an Atlanta area "trailer park." The Lost Cause narrative permeated church life, but high school opened new perspectives for Philip. He shares bitter-sweet memories of church life. Philip appeared as the Southern preacher Elijah in a high school performance of Inherit the Wind. In Bible College, Philip had a reputation as an intellectual rebel, reading Bertrand Russell and Harvey Cox. Then he met his match, Janet. The parable of the Good Samaritan changed everything. He would later write. What's So Amazing about Grace. George Beverly Shea's song touches Philip. (First aired September 2021)
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In this very special episode, Carla reveals her real identity. Ken and Carla share how they met, the projects that brought them together, and how they began this 18-month weekly conversation they call "Beach Talks." Rather than spell out the details here, you'll need to listen to the podcast. Sharing the early days, pre-podcast, they talk about their new friendship working together on a published book. Carla relays some of the detail of her college and then the beginnings of the career that shaped her political and spiritual perspectives. If you are drawn, as Ken is, to Carla's intelligence, quick wit, political commentary, and infectious, soulful faith, you'll appreciate these fresh, new disclosures. It's a delightful and personal account.
This week, Secretary Pete Buttigieg appears at the University of Chicago. Macron wins!
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Episodes since the launch: 190
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Ken is pleased to welcome Lisa Sharon Harper and her new groundbreaking book, Fortune - How Race Broke My Family and the World--and How to Repair It All. It all began with the results of her submission of DNA to ancestry.com. Lisa learned of her Nigerian roots - and ancestry that extends all the way back to the onset of slavery in America in the 1600s. Lisa shares her story of awakenings, which began when she became a Christian as a high school student in Young Life. She soon learned that her new faith was inextricably linked to white Republican politics - her activist mother was horrified. At Rutgers, as an undergraduate, she was active in Campus Crusade for Christ. She encountered the writings of John Perkins. In her book, Lisa traces the history of her family tree including the Lawrences, the Weeks, and the Fortune Magee Game born in 1689. Her family lived with the heavy consequence of race laws that governed slavery and defined "whiteness" as they were written over 300 years. Jesus, Lisa reminds us, was not white, he was brown, indigenous, and colonized - and killed by Empire. Lisa has a great insight into "white fragility" - it's worse. Resistance has been weaponized. Lisa traveled with "Nuns on the Bus," uncovering the roots of the MAGA narrative. SHOW NOTES
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For Easter Week, Ken and Carla begin on a very personal note - Carla's departed husband, Fritz would be celebrating his birthday on the day of this recording. They reminisce about Fritz who, like Ken, went o seminary and served as a pastor. Carla shares the story of their romance. The two reflect on the meaning of this season of resurrection. Turning to the headlines, Joe Biden acknowledges that the Russian assault on Ukraine is genocide. The war crimes accumulate. Ken shares his reading - Amor Towles' Gentleman in Moscow. Carla's book, The Secret Chord by Geraldine Brooks, is an historical novel that explores drama around the biblical David's life. Tiger Woods finished four rounds at the Masters. Carla brings us current on Secretary Pete and Lucy Lark. Next week, there will be a major announcement.
(NOTE: This version of the audio corrects the error in the original)
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The vote is in! Ketanji Brown Jackson has been approved by the Senate to become the newest Associate Justice of the Supreme Court. Ken and Carla review the events leading up to and following the historic bi-partisan vote: 52/47. The sorry Republican response triggers their analysis and commentary. Eddie Glaude, Jr. and Cory Booker contribute their insight and perspectives. Carla raises the question of how it can be that once relatively reasonable conservative "intellectuals" like Eric Metaxas and Rod Dreher have become conspiratorial combatants, joining the ranks of Josh Hawley and Tom Cotton. Secretary Pete proceeds with his aggressive infrastructure agenda and gains ground as a national public figure. Baseball is back. Tiger Woods makes the cut at the Master's Tournament.
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Ken welcomes his good friend Osahon Obasuaye for the first in a series they call, "Cabana Talks." Cancel culture has become what Osahon calls, the Cult of Cancellation. It seems to be everywhere. Julie Roys exposes John MacArthur's misdeeds; both have something to learn from the "N" word - nuance. Ken asks about Osahon's take on the Will Smith/Chris Rock episode - and how it impacted him personally. Caught in the crossfire is Summer of Soul and Ahmir "Questlove" Thompson; Venus and Serena Williams, and their film, King Richard, too. Osahon was moved by Ken's interview with David Swanson, and his assertion that the white church needs to be "rediscipled." Osahon's unique perspective and clarity of insight make this a poignant and timely podcast.
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Ken and Carla celebrate the first day of the month, April Fool's Day. The Oscars are still the buzz as the nation processes Will Smith's assault on Chris Rock, before Hollywood's glitterati and millions of views. Lost in the fray was the Oscar-winning documentary, Summer of Soul (...Or, When the Revolution Could Not Be Televised). Ken and Carla celebrate the music from 1969 that dominated the charts while Woodstock got all the attention. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas and his wife Ginni Thomas made the headlines - calling for recusals, open testimony and full disclosure. Florida legislation is also causing controversy as Governor Ron DeSantis seeks to eclipse the influence of the former president, employing his tactics. Carla closes with an inspiring moment from Sunday morning.
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Episode 184
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Ken welcomes Rev. David Swanson, author of the powerfully provocative book, Redisciplining the White Church from Cheap Diversity to True Solidarity. Once again on the podcast, two white guys talk about race - specifically race in the American white evangelical church. David started a church in the historic Bronzeville district in the South Side of Chicago. David tells the story of his own awakenings. The white church is predisposed to resist conversation about racial history, white dominance, and the harmful impact of the conservative propaganda machine. The two share their journeys of self-discovery - awakening to the problems of whiteness. Swanson quotes many, like Frederick Douglass, James Baldwin and Bryan Stevenson. Ida B. Wells (who battled lynching in the late 1800s) challenged Dwight L. Moody. The Emmett Till Law of 2020 was just signed the week of this recording, making lynching a federal hate crime. Structural, systemic, and institutional racism is a reality that must be taken into account. David is a great proponent of the Civil Rights Tour. SHOW NOTES
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Ken welcomes Diana Butler Bass, an author, speaker, and independent scholar specializing in American religion and culture. They talk about her new book (to be released March 31, 2021) Freeing Jesus. Diana shares the background that took her from the East Coast to Arizona and Scottsdale Bible Church where she made a commitment to follow Jesus. It took her to Westmont College and Gordon-Conwell Seminary where she began to have deep questions about her faith. They discuss Marcus Borg, Josh McDowell, C.S. Lewis. the Quakers, Augustine vs Pelagius, Calvinism and Dr. Richard Rohr.
See Show Notes for more.
Original broadcast, March 2021
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Ken and Carla review the situation in Ukraine and then turn to the Judiciary Committee hearings with Supreme Court nominee, Ketanji Brown Jackson. Ken expresses relief that he left the republican party years ago. The grandstanding and political theater betrays a complete abandonment of democratic norms, all played out on the world stage. Turn's out, Robin D'Angelo's analysis of white fragility is playing out in the Senate chambers. Lindsey Graham violates the constitution by giving the judge a "religious test." Ted Cruz brings in Ibram X. Kendi's children's book to press the judge on Critical Race Theory. Tom Cotton and Josh Hawley attempt to promote the spurious notion that the judge gives concessions to criminal pedophiles. Marsha Blackburn asks the judge to define "woman," and when the nominee properly defers, she accuses her of being the kind of liberal who will destroy families and the nation's children. The judge will in all likelihood be confirmed. This episode was recorded as day 2 brought more of the same. The nominee stood strong against a barrage of mansplaining. Secretary Pete represents a different approach. Ken shares his current reading: Groundskeeping by Lee Cole. Lucy Lark hears from her dad.
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Carla turns a professional page and shares the implications. Secretary Pete appeared on 60 Minutes for a full segment on Infrastructure - a welcome priority for our nation. Christianity Today gives a public response to the accusations of sexual harassment in their organization. It signals the troubling impact of toxic masculinity in evangelical institutions which historically have opposed Equal Rights and shown insensitivity to workplace safety. The "Theobros" are targeting their ire against authors like Kristin Kobes De Mez and Beth Barr for their highly popular analysis of the plight of women in patriarchal spaces. Conservative opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment killed the legislation in the eleventh hour. Ukraine continues to live in the headlines, in full crisis. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy addressed a joint session of Congress with a world-class, powerful appeal for assistance in the unprovoked war defending against Putin and his Russian invasion. Arnold Schwarzenegger appears in a video directed towards the Russian people to counter the Putin false narrative about the war. Philip Yancey has written a comprehensive response to the war in Ukraine. Robert Reich has changed in mind in light of this international crisis. Baseball and March Madness are back.
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FRONTLINE: Putin's Road to War
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The two Kens ponder the perplexing question: why are many evangelicals enamored with Vladimir Putin and his nationalist vision for Russia? As Russia invades Ukraine this month, Putin has been exposed as an autocrat and brutal, murderous tyrant. Some conservatives, by necessity, are back-tracking. But for years, far-right conservatives, including Donald Trump, Mike Pompeo, Franklin Graham, and Tucker Carlson have openly admired the once KGB agent and current President (for nearly twenty years) of Russia. The roots of evangelicalism (which includes their eschatological worldview, embedded in dispensationalism) make their anti-democratic infatuation with Russian authoritarianism a source of admiration. To their delight, Putin initiated and passed anti-gay and anti-abortion legislation. Along with his populist nationalism, his affirmation of the Russian Orthodox Church makes Russia a preferred alternative for America than the Democratic vision of President Joe Biden, according to the conservative narrative. This week, both Nikki Haley and William Barr, while distancing themselves from Trumpism, both affirm their intent to support Donald T**** if he is nominated by the Republican Party for the 2024 election. According to them both, woke liberals (like the two Kens) are ruining the country. Fong and Kemp ponder the particulars of dispensationalism including the Rapture, the Anti-Christ, the Sign of the Beast and other assumptions that make many particularly susceptible to conspiracy theories and fake news of every sort, including the frightening seduction of admiration for the tyrant Vladimir Putin. They discuss Russell Moore's interview with Adam Kinzinger where they talk about the religious sources and symbols displayed at the January 6 insurrection. The conservative propaganda machine is typified by Tucker Carlson who has challenged Ketanji Brown Jackson's nomination, demanding her LSAT scores. In closing, Ken and Ken affirm that they are Exhibit A: it's possible - and good - to change one's mind.
The Asian America Podcast with Ken Fong
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NOTE: Audio issues have been repaired.
Ken and Carla pick up on their conversation over Lent. A "Yacht Music Playlist" takes Ken to another place. They turn to Ukraine and unprovoked assault on civilians including women, children, and now, a maternity hospital. Rabbi Jeff Salkin weighs in. While there is still reason for hope, the situation has turned dark. Putin's program to "de-Nazify" is fake news. Will the Russian people wake up to this false narrative? Will evangelical fascination with Putin and Russia be diminished as the cruelty continues? Franklin Graham seems to be changing his tune. Religious freedom in democratic Ukraine appears to be a threat to Putin and his embrace of the Russian Orthodox Church. Florida has passed the "don't say gay" legislation - a "righteous" law that is cruel thanks to Governor Ron DeSantis and his kind. Julie Roys calls out John MacArthur for banishing an abused wife because she left her husband. Lucy Lark brings more joy.
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Carla is back. After a week off, Ken and Carla reconvene for Beach Talk #73. Ken reviews his road trip up North for wine tasting and a brunch at Pebble Beach Lodge. He reminisces over his one round on the course years ago and his memorable finish on the 18th Hole. Ukraine is in the headlines, displaying their patriotism and commitment to democracy, dong their best to stand up against a ruthless and unprovoked invasion. The entire world is turning against Putin and his oligarchs. This week, Joe Biden delivered his State of the Union Address in a moment that reminded the nation and the world of the sacred purpose our nation's Capitol Building, which just over a year ago was desecrated by insurrectionists. Putin faces global condemnation, including in his own cities. Ken and Carla are inspired by a powerful display of unity we haven't seen in years - in that joint session of Congress, in Europe (EU and NATO, standing in solidarity with the people of Ukraine, and even protesters standing against Putin in many Russian cities, including Moscow. They finish referencing the first day of Lent. Carla brings us current as Grandma to Lucy Lark.
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The Beached White Male Podcast welcomes Scott Young, Creator and President of Culture Connection and the former Director of the City of Angels Film Festival. Ken likes to call Scott the Professor of Cinema. Scott asserts that we are at the end of the "print culture" and we've become a "culture of moving images." Movie images are today's "lingua franca." Some see movies for entertainment or escape, others to process the challenges of their lives - or to enrich. Ken shares four films that have shaped and enriched his life - One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest, Beautiful Mind, Dead Poet Society, and Belfast. Scott shares his list: Apocalypse Now, Taxi Driver, and Nightmare Alley. As we finished Black History Month, Scott features world-class directors who are also people of color, including Ava DuVernay and When They See Us - the story of the Central Park Five (also known for the award-winning Selma). Charles Burnett produced the film Killer of Sheep (1978) as an MFA film student at UCLA - the story of life in South Central Los Angeles. Gregory Nava's film Selena with a young Jennifer Lopez with Edward James Olmos, the story of a rising Latin singer who reached the pinnacle of stardom and then tragically murdered at age twenty-three. Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu directed “Babel" (2006), a collection of stories with Kate Blanchett and Brad Pitt. Rooted in the biblical story of Babel, the stories and the images come together making a powerful punch. Scott ends by sharing some practical advice on how to watch a movie.
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This week, Ken has a road trip which means a rarely missed week of Beach Talk with his good friend Carla. If you are a regular, you know that Ken and Carla, the "Bleached Blonde Female," have a weekly conversation reviewing the headlines - political, religious, and more. Today, we re-release their very first podcast - Beach Talk #1 from August of 2020. It was an experiment then - a kind of demo. But it was just the first. The two haven't stopped since. Just about every week, their Beach Talks have enjoyed lots of downloads. Last week, they posted Beach Talk #72.
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Ken welcomes the popular scholar, professor, author, and podcaster, Dr. Peter Enns. Pete's podcast, The Bible for Normal People ("the only God-ordained podcast on the internet") has a broad and wide reach, exploring the sacred text along with his co-host Jared Byas. They have interviewed a wide range of scholars from many religious and theological backgrounds. Ken especially appreciates his watershed book, The Sin of Certainty. The two share their journeys through seminary, and Pete gets candid about his experience at Harvard where he completed his dissertation and earned that Ph.D. Pete's early book, Inspiration and Incarnation: Evangelicals and the Problem of the Old Testament, sparked a controversy that led to his departure as full professor at Westminster Theological Seminary. Pete candidly shares the awakenings he experienced in those formative days, and the freedom he enjoys today. SHOW NOTES
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Carla slips on the winter Mid-West ice and falls. She's rescued by her daughter and son-in-law. The spectacular Super Bowl LVI brought memorable moments, a major victory for the Rams, especially Cooper Kupp, Aaron Donald and Matthew Stafford. There was plenty of controversy. The dazzling Half-Time Show with Dr. Dre, Snoop Dog, and Eminem brought nostalgia and equal time, but not everyone approved. Whiteness reacted with its predictable backlash all over Twitter and conservative media. The NFL is dealing with a serious PR problem with reference to race. The accounting firm for the Trump organization, Mazars USA, announces: "You're fired!" - disassociating themselves from their major client and disavowing the past ten years of financial statements. Carla introduces the concept of "generational criminality." National treasure Ken Burns issues a warning for America. Carla shares her love for a novel about FDR and Lucy Mercer by Ellen Feldman simply called "Lucy." Ken finishes with a story about an NYT journalist and an ice fisherman in Ukraine - a nation in crisis.
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Carla pines for a Minnesota-style grilled walleye-pike sandwich - and reveals that her husband proposed to her on Lake Minnetonka. Switching to the headlines, according to Maggie Haberman, the White House plumbing while occupied by the former President frequently backed-up thanks to official government documents flushed from the Presidential suite. Carla objects to the general perception that the current administration is plagued by bad news, countering with a series of praise-worthy accomplishments. Sec. Pete is encouraging the development of electric vehicles. Ken talks about the series Long Way Up in which Star Wars actor Ewan McGregor rides an electric motorcycle from the Southern most tip of South America to California. The Republican party is splitting apart over Trump's promise in his most recent rally to pardon convicted insurrectionists should he be re-elected in 2024. Mitch McConnell speaks out as John Thune stands in support. The Winter Olympics in Beijing are up and running raising causing both Ken and Carla to feel conflicted as President Xi Jinping hosts. The Super Bowl comes on the weekend at the breathtaking SoFi Stadium - both Ken and Carla cheer for the Rams and quarterback Matthew Stafford. Spoiler alert - Ken shares the emotional close of Jamie Raskins' consequential book, Unthinkable. Carla closes with a heart-warming Grandma update.
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Kemp and Fong come together for a different TWO KENS conversation. They both like to listen to the other's podcasts. Kemp comments on Fong's interview with non-profit fund-raiser Vu Le. Fong heard Ken's exchange with Osahon Obazuaye and asked if the two might spend the majority of this podcast exploring how Kemp transitioned from the conservative friend Fong new three decades ago to the Beached White Male, today interacting with a young African American on a deep level about race in America. Fong probes into Kemp's journey, from education in conservative academic institutions, to a major secular university (UCLA), to a career in business. While he had formative experiences in race, he became a conservative in both religion and politics. He confesses his early preoccupation with Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. Promise Keepers introduced the Year of Racial Reconciliation and it killed the movement. Fong shared the stage with Franklin Graham. That changed with the election of Barack Obama, for whom he voted in 2008. In a series of awakenings, The Beached White Male podcast took off, including a commitment to the Center for Racial Reconciliation and a deep friendship with Osahon - and Ken Fong. They end with a reflection on the cost of the journey, and more, the benefit.
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This Beach Talk is a CLASSIC. Ken and Carla jump right into a conversation about democracy in danger. The Electoral Count Act is in desperate need of revision, highlighting the archaic and unfair electoral college. Best of all is Carla's take on the Spotify kerfuffle - surrounding mega-podcaster Joe Rogan. Neil Young (Ohio) and Joni Mitchell (Big Yellow Taxi - Paved Paradise) emerge as heroes. Another hero is Congressman Jamie Raskin whose new book Unthinkable - Trauma, Truth, and the Trials of American Democracy - is a must-read. This conversation is a celebration of music that shaped the lives of an entire generation, including Ken and Carla.
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An aging white male (Ken - the Beached White Male) and a young, influential African American male (Osahon Obazuaye) engage in a lively conversation about race. The two currently are co-hosts for an online Table Talk focussed on The 1619 Project. Nikole Hannah-Jones won the Pulitzer Prize and then, in a predictable white backlash, a vicious attack on her work. Osahon shares a very personal reflection, comparing the response of denial to the 2003 news about Kobe Bryant to the denial of America's Original Sin. Osahon draws on the sermons and lectures from Dr. Martin Luther King. Ken points to the use of slaves as collateral to secure mortgages and loans issued to slave masters - representing a staggering portion of the nation's total, cumulative debt. They discuss the Founder's (Thomas Jefferson) intent when they wrote and signed off the assertion that "all men are created equal." They unpack the current tropes over Critical Race Theory, and how it is rooted in animosity toward evolution. Florida's Individual Freedom Bill (HB7) is in the headlines and is representative of legislation and school board policy all across the county targeting the teaching of America's true history (CRT) in the government and public schools. The strategy of censure, a listing of targeted professors, the denial of history all are unAmerican. To engage the truth is an expression of a deep love of America and the flag that represents our ideals.
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Carla's experiencing a serious cold snap as Ken describes his California blue sky and 70 degrees. In this fireside chat, they open with stories of emotionally charged moments in church over the weekend - for them both in different places for different reasons: It's sacred ground. Time for lament; welcoming break-throughs. They reflect on Ken's conversation with Jasmin Shupper and her battle with the wealth gap through Greenline Housing Foundation. Sometimes anger opens doors for positive activism. Politically, Carla reminds us of the praiseworthy progress of the Biden administration as against the wave of criticism. Biden slips as a hot mike picks up his response to a combative media. Biden's team rallies the global allies around the threat of Putin's pending invasion of Ukraine. Tucker Carlson puffs Putin. The January 6 committee findings find a public hearing next month. Updates re Secretary Pete and Grandmotherhood.
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Today, Ken welcomes Jasmin Schupper, Founder and CEO of Greenline Housing Foundation. With a university degree in business and corporate and non-profit experience in finance, Jasmine learned about the racial wealth gap in this country. She's taking action. Ken and Jasmine discuss that wealth gap, from the post-civil war reconstruction era where the newly freed, formerly enslaved were promised 40 acres and a mule. Tracing history since then, they talk about the way in which homeownership has been the primary driver of wealth for most Americans. But many have been left out. From the Tulsa Massacre (Black Wall Street) to Manhatten Beach (CA) to redlining, to forced segregation, to unjust banking policies and unjust public assistance, the need for resources and correction is real. Jasmine's supporters and friends have stepped up building a bridge across the gap. This episode includes a word from Albert Tate and personal stories of Greenline in action that will inspire. Redlining is now illegal - welcome Greenline. SHOW NOTES
Learn more at www.greenlinehouseing.org where you may contact Jasmine.
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Ken and Carla connect for their weekly review, following Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King's memorial weekend. Both Ken and Carla attended church services that honored Dr. King. It's more than "I have a dream..." Ken's Table Talk on the 1619 Project starts next week. The humble Rabbi Cytron-Walker is celebrated around the world, underscoring the anti-Semitism that persists to this day. 60 Minutes updates the Anne Frank Holocaust Story. Ken highlights his interview with Julie Kratz and her focus on allyship. KN95 masks will be delivered this week, along with COVID tests.
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Ken welcomes acclaimed TEDx Speaker, author, podcaster, and authority on diversity training in the workplace, Julie Kratz. A seasoned veteran of corporate life, Julie founded and leads The Next Pivot Point, a consulting and training firm that serves major corporations across the nation. Julie found Ken on LinkedIn, seeking allies in the work of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). They talk about gender and race, privilege and power, and the wide-open door to a conversation that leads to allyship. Julie's academic credentials include a B.A. in Marketing and Logistics from Ohio State University's Fisher College of Business and an M.B.A. from the Kelley School of Business at Indiana University. SHOW NOTES
Find Julie at nextpivotpoint.com
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Ken and Carla reminisce over the impact of Simon and Garfunkel on their formative years. You'll hear Carla sing. The pressure on the Biden administration is growing on the Voting Rights legislation. Secretary Pete visits Southern California to review the supply chain backup. John MacArthur comes out with a troubling and surprising take on religious freedom. Lucy Lark brings Carla joy. Ken shares a personal story, a near tragedy that might have changed everything. This edition of the podcast is a bridge over troubled water.
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Official Site: The Simon and Garfunkel Story
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Kemp and Fong come together for the first Two Kens Podcast for the New Year. Ken Fong shares his adventures as a wildlife photographer and then his interviews with the stars and producer of the new FOX hit series, The Cleaning Lady, featuring AAPI (Asian American and Pacific Islander) cast and crew. But the primary focus of the conversation was prompted by the discovery of a 72 million-year-old dinosaur fossil egg, raising questions about creation and evolution, science and religion, and time and space. Ken Fong shares his experiences as a pastor and his contribution to a chapter in the 2016 book, How I Changed My Mind About Evolution: Evangelicals Reflect on Faith and Science(IVP). Fong also shares his personal breakfast with Dr. Francis Collins, author of The Language of God and co-founder of BIO LOGOS, a think tank dedicated to the integration of science and faith.
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Ken and Carla take their first Beach Talk for 2022 indoors - to a crackling fire for a Fireside Chat. They record this first conversation of the New Year on January 5, 2022, the day before the one year anniversary of the January 6 Insurrection of 2021. They share their thoughts. Players like Sean Hannity, Jamie Raskin, President Joe Biden and Secretary Pete among others are discussed. In anticipation of the New Year, just they closed out 2021 with Five Reflections each, they each share their Five Hopes for 2022. They include family, politics, the pandemic, personal commitments and travel plans. Ken begins his fourth Table Talk this month unpacking the 1619 Project with his partners, Osahon Obazuaye.
Join Ken's Table Talk (registration limited)
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For the first episode of Season 3, Ken brings back friend of the podcast, Dr. David Gushee. He has just released a new book - Introducing Christian Ethics (release date - January 2022 ). David has just been named Senior Research Fellow at International Baptist Theological Study Centre at Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam. David will present a scholarly lecture entitled "Defending democracy from its Christian enemies." Ethics defined: Critical reflection on Human Morality. It's not just an academic exercise. It's for us all. Gushee addresses creation, patriarchy, white supremacy, abortion, sexuality, marriage, politics, crime, and more. It's not just what we don't believe, it's about what we affirm. David identifies covenant as a core ethical value - in both public and private life. David addresses race. Howard Thurman's work, Jesus and the Disinherited gives David a renewed sense of the identity of Jesus and a sensitivity to the marginalized - and the relationship of all this to the Kingdom of God. SHOW NOTES
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Season 1 - 63 episodes
Season 2 - 100 episodes
TOTAL: 163 episodes
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Happy New Year! Ken and Carla reflect on the year gone by. Last December, in their Christmas edition, they finished episode 15 - this is episode 64. They have developed a strong bond, coming together nearly every week to talk about how events have impacted them. This week, they consider how their Beach Talks have shaped them. Each identifies the TOP FIVE events, books, films or happenings that shaped our year. Grandma Carla shares her greatest moment from just this week. See Ken's comprehensive list in the SHOW NOTES.
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This holiday week - a SPECIAL REBROADCAST from October 2020: one of Ken's all-time favorites. Ken met this remarkable octogenarian while Kayaking on Lake Superior. Ed Kale, M.Div., 1963 professional kayaker, was a student at Yale Divinity School in 1961 when a generous professor funded his participation in a Freedom Ride to Jackson, MS. He was arrested, put in jail along with other men and women, black and white. Because the jails were full, he and the others (including the famed William Sloan Coffin), were transferred to the Mississippi State Penitentiary at Parchman. Ken met Ed while kayaking on Lake Superior - and then met at the historic Old Rittenhouse Inn in Bayfield, WI for an interview. They talked about their experience as seminarians, and then Ed's journey which includes his friendship with James Farmer (the civil rights champion who organized the Freedom Rides), Carol Ruth Silver (author and fellow Freedom Rider), and the incomparable author and philosopher James Baldwin. Learn more about Ed Kale in our SHOW NOTES.
From SEASON 1, Episode 42: OCTOBER 2020
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Ken and Carla connect just before Christmas Day, December 23, 2021, this time with a Fireside Chat. They reflect on a year of Beach Talks, this week touch on Beth Moore's connection to her new church, The Anglican Communion, and the reaction of her former SBC friends. The Beatles pull Ken and Carla out of the basement of political talk. There is good economic news as we close out 2021. In anticipation of the arrival of her first grandchild, Carla and Ken reflect on the manger scene, and the wonder of children, the gift of the season.
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Ken Fong (Asian America, the Ken Fong Podcast) and Ken Kemp explore the immensely popular Christianity Today podcast series, The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. There are 12 episodes and nearly 15 hours of highly produced exploration to unpack. It's the story of the collapse of the megachurch in the Pacific Northwest led by Mark Driscoll. The two Kens discuss how narcissistic leaders and toxic masculinity can lead to big ratings, big voting blocks and full pews, and massive, costly calamity. Eager followers and enablers contribute to the popularity and power of these leaders both in religion and politics. The parallels between the fallen pastor and the disgraced former president are hard to miss.
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The tornadoes that hit the mid-west have left a swath of devastation. Carla complements California's Governor Gavin Newsom for leading the way for the rest of the nation. Liz Cheney outed Mark Meadows who continues to take his cues from the former President, hindering the work of the House Select Committee on the January 6 Attack. Fox News personalities (Sean Hannity, Brian Kilmeade) offered their advice to Mark Meadows as the insurrection exploded on national television, blurring the boundaries between governing and journalism. Laura Ingraham cried out via text that January 6 would "destroy the President's [Trump] legacy!" Carla underscores the imminent threat to democracy and the need to call out the forces currently in play. Senator (Rev.) Raphael Warnock delivers a powerful speech on voting rights. A call for "bi-partisanship" can be a smoke-screen obscuring the issues that lead to legislative progress. The delivery of the new baby, making Carla a grandmother, could happen any day now. Carols carry us into the season.
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Ken's guest is professor, author, musician and now podcaster, Japanese American R. Scott Okamoto. While teaching at a well-known, established Christian university, Scott finds himself deep in the private process of deconstruction. His fervent evangelical faith began to crumble. He grew up in a high profile evangelical church in Pasadena where he followed in the footsteps of his parent's strong faith. His family's tragic experience of Japanese internment during WWII in Southern California contributed to his resistance to the Christian nationalism he encountered in the church and beyond. As a leader in the InterVarsity Christian Fellowship on his University of California at San Diego campus, he became a worship leader, reading and studying apologetics on his own. He meets Josh McDowell. But the answers he needed eluded him. With a Master of Arts from the University of San Francisco in English and writing, he became a professor of English at that Christian university. When he befriended the leadership of the LGBTQ community there, which by necessity remained "underground," the resistance he and the students faced pushed him further in the direction of deconstruct, which by now is complete. He's publishing a book which addresses the challenge of working for a Christian institution when one's faith can no longer be sustained. Early next year, he will launch his new podcast he calls, "Chapel Probation." SHOW NOTES
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Anticipation of the birth of Carl's first grandchild has her thinking about the need for good prenatal care. Not everyone has access in this country. Attacks on Planned Parenthood and the Affordable Care Act make adequate medical care out of reach for too many Americans. Attempts to get to the bottom of the causes and responsibility for the January 6 insurrection continue, with Mark Meadows doing all he can to frustrate the process. Alec Baldwin's explanation for the accidental death of Halyna Hutchins raises yet more questions. The celebration of a birthday gets Ken and Carla thinking about aging - aging with energy, purpose, and meaning.
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Ken shares thoughts from the memorial for a good friend lost to Covid. He reminisces about a return to the church where he served as college pastor in the late seventies and early nineties. Carla identifies more complications relating to the Supreme Court's review of Roe v. Wade. Secretary Pete and V.P. Kamala Harris are getting noticed as potential presidential candidates. The immortal fab four, The Beatles, are the focus of a new documentary that triggers all kinds of memories. As a high school kid, Carla heard the Beatles in concert - live. "Yesterday, " says Carla, "is pure genius."
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Ken welcomes long-time listener, Darcy McKenzie. She lives in Minneapolis, Minnesota, not far from George Floyd Square, where Derek Chauvin pressed his knee on his victim's neck resulting in a death viewed by millions around the world. Darcy shares her experience, which includes a Prayer Tent on the site of the square providing space for people to come together from all walks of life. She also tells the story of the Henry Sibley High School that took a deep dive into the history of the first governor of Minnesota and his relationship with the Dakota Tribe. History nearly forgotten came to life and a community rallied together to recognize the sins of the past, honoring the memory of those who lost their lives near the merging of the Mississippi and Minnesota Rivers. The school became Two Rivers High School. SHOW NOTES.
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Ken welcomes you to the podcast. It replaces the original welcome - so much has changed in over eighteen months and one-hundred-fifty episodes. He shares the saga of the podcast's beginnings just as Covid isolated us in our homes, bringing "normal life" to a sudden halt. It's been a steep learning curve for Ken, addressing issues of race, politics, and religion. Ken's many guests have changed him - his listeners, too. Betsey Newenhuyse (formerly known as Carla) joined him a year ago for Beach Talks. The Two Kens feature the host and creator of Asian America - The Ken Fong Podcast. See if you find yourself in Ken's story.
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On this Thanksgiving week, and on the occasion of the release of WHOLEHEARTED FAITH, we re-release Ken's conversation with Peter Held. When Rachel died in May of 2019, she left behind a nearly finished manuscript. This month, with Jeff Chu's able assistance, that book has been released. On this podcast, Ken has the honor of a long talk with Professor Peter Held, Rachel Held-Evan’s Dad. The world grieved just last year when a shocking, mysterious illness took this author, inspirational speaker, counselor, and Mom to two young children. Ken read several of her books - he was/is a fan of her life and work. Dr. Held opens up about his own background and then reflects on Rachel’s growing up years and her start as a thinker and writer. Ken and Pete walk through the abrupt, dark days of her illness and then the tidal of love and support that rolled in from all corners of the globe. Ken reads from the blog he posted just after the news of Rachel's untimely passing. SHOW NOTES
Wholehearted Faith By Rachel Held Evans with Jeff Chu
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Ken and Carla reconvene for their weekly Beach Talk. Thanksgiving is coming. Carla shares her perspective on the signing ceremony at the White House making the bi-partisan Infrastructure legislation the law of the land. Along with some 800 mayors, governors and legislators standing close to the President is Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg. On Carla's recommendation, Ken watched the documentary now streaming on Amazon Prime, Mayor Pete. They share their perspectives on the film. They turn to a conversation to Thanksgiving - a tradition both of them cherish. They relate their ambivalence around the American exceptionalism narrative that props up the holiday for many, acknowledging well documented abuses in history. Many, it appears, would happily erase these truths from the history books. Not here. Ken brings up the Doctrine of Discovery, explained in a book called Unsettling Truths by Mark Charles. For Ken and Carla, The essence of Thanksgiving is gratitude for an abundant harvest, now in. They celebrate the anticipation of time to embrace family, friends, neighbors, home and table.
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Ken welcomes theologian, professor, former pastor, Bible teacher, and Co-Founder of THE PUBLIC, an organization that promotes anti-racism through education, advocacy, and action. It's purpose: so that their community will experience healing, equity, and justice for all its residents. A fellow graduate of the Moody Bible Institute, the two talk about backlash throughout history, up to the present day - from Reconstruction following the Civil War to school board meetings across America where history is suppressed, books prohibited. Anthony's trip to Israel triggered a deconstruction, a crisis of faith, not an abandonment but a fresh renewal. Anthony quotes white Southern Baptist Scholar Robert P. Jones (White Too Long) challenging the biblical assumptions of white superiority. They share thoughts on MLK's letter from a Birmingham jail. Anthony plans a trip in 2023 to Ghana to explore the beginnings of the slave trade in North America. SHOW NOTES.
Contact Anthony Hendricks: https://www.thepublicfranklin.com/
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From their beach chairs, Ken and Carla raise a glass as the Infrastructure is passed. They talk about how the "sausage got made." It's a long-awaited win for President Joe Biden, and a huge responsibility for Secretary Pete to show what he can do. Adam Kinzinger becomes more and more effective as an influential Republican. They reflect on the two big trials in the news, Kyle Rittenhouse, the self-styled vigilante, and the scene in the courtroom of the murder trial of Ahmad Arbery. The post-humous book from Rachel Held Evans has been released: Wholehearted Faith. Ken shares his thoughts with Carla. The new documentary, Mayor Pete, is now streaming on Amazon Prime. Carla shares her weekly update on the new baby - coming soon.
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Ken Fong and Ken Kemp review Fong's powerful conversation with Dr. Russell Jeung, named one of the Top 100 Global Influencers by TIME Magazine. Dr. Jeung is co-founder of Stop AAPI-HATE (Asian American hate). Conservative author, Jennifer Rubin's Washington Post article suggests that Evangelicals can never get what they really want. The recent Virginia election (Republican Youngkin defeats Democrat McAuliffe) brings the great divide into sharp focus. The two call up "dispensationalism" as a long-time filter for Biblical interpretation and "Biblical World-View." The "Lost Cause" narrative drives much to this agenda. If this is all a failure of "discipleship" or "catechism" then what sort of discipleship would have made a difference? Replacement theory drives much of the fear of the loss of power.
Listen to Ken Fong - http://asianamericapodcast.com/
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This week's Beach Talk start with a visit to an Alpaca Farm, and then Gus Buttigieg in the hospital in his Halloween outfit with his two dads. After last week's prediction of victory for Democrats, the two move into post-mortem mode, unpacking the election results. In Virginia, Republican Glenn Youngkin had the advantage, Democrat Terry McCauliff took a beating. They talk about the need to be sensitive to the trauma suffered this last year in the wake of pandemic and economic hardship in both education and business. The Biden agenda seems to be stalling, but Carla is optimistic. Representative Adam Kinzinger is modeling what a politician ought to be in this world of hyper-partisanship. The tragic shooting on the set of Alec Baldwin's movie raises many questions. Carla shares a moving, heartfelt moment at last weekend's shower for her soon-to-arrive grandchild.
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Ken welcomes author, activist and pastor Nathaniel Manderson. After reading Nate's article on Salon.com ("Evangelical Theology Is What Made the Texas Abortion Outrage Possible"), Ken reached out to learn more. Nate agreed to a podcast interview. We learn that Nate, an ordained Baptist minister, is, like Ken, a seminary graduate (M. Div., Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Boston). They compare academic notes. Nate finished his undergraduate degree from UMass Dartmouth where he (the only male in the class) made a presentation on the Promise Keepers in his class on Women's studies. The two discuss the rise of Donald Trump as standard-bearer for evangelicalism, the effort to undo Roe v. Wade, LGBTQ inclusion and the current divide over race in America. Ken asks Nate to respond to "The Five Things You Cannot Say in Church." You'll find links to more of Nate's work in the expanded Show Notes.
SHOW NOTES: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/nate-manderson/
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Carla is on a roll after listening to a conversation between Joe Scarborough and Lawrence O'Donnell who inspire her to action. She's been engaged in working the Virginia gubernatorial election, where Republican candidate, Glenn Youngkin complains that Toni Morrison's Beloved was read by a high school senior who objected - she claimed - because he was traumatized by the book. Carla takes issue. The legislative spoiler from Arizona, Kyrsten Sinema, has oversized influence. Charlie Kirk is aiming at high school and college students with his well-funded organization he calls Turning Point. His primary target: Critical Race Theory. He is calling for an acceleration of the Culture Wars. This weekend, Carla joins her family to celebrate the anticipation of her first grandchild with a well-attended Baby Shower.
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Chris Greer, Licensed Clinical Social Worker, joins Ken for a conversation about redemption, recovery and living well. Ken and Chris's friendship began over a decade ago in a small town in California's Central Valley where Ken was interim pastor in a local church. About 5 years after Chris suffered a serious auto accident at age eighteen. Chris shared the harrowing story of an addiction to pain killers (OxyContin), alcohol and other drugs with Ken. It was a Sunday afternoon lunch that led to several years of therapy, recovery and rehab that Ken and Chris, in many ways, walked through together. Chris shares openly both the progress and the set-backs. With lots of support, starting with just a few community college credits, Chris went on to complete a Bachelors Degree in Psychology and then earned admittance to the Master of Social Work at the University of Southern California (USC). He completed the program, graduating and then completing the thousands of supervised hours, passing the exams to become a licensed therapist. Along the way, he met and married Jennifer. Every year, Chris calls Ken in October to report the anniversary of his sobriety - this year, number ten. Today, Chris has a full calendar in private practice helping others find that redemption, recovery, and living well. Show Notes: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/chris_greer/
Learn more about Chris Greer: http://chrisgreertherapy.com/
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Ken welcomes author, spiritual director, activist, and preaching minister at the University Church of Christ (Pepperdine), Eric Wilson. The two met at a spiritual retreat for the facilitators of the Center for Racial Reconciliation where Eric led a day of refreshment and restoration around the theme of Brush Arbor. "It's soul work," Eric says. The two take us back to Eric's early formation years growing up in St. Louis, Missouri. His academic work took him from the University of Missouri to UCLA, where he earned an ABD in Theater Literature, History and Criticism. Eric's work as a Certified Spiritual Director and Life Coach contribute to this conversation filled with wisdom, insight and authenticity.
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The 2 Ken's pick up where they left off. In the last 2 KENS podcast editions, Ken Fong and Ken Kemp discussed the first four editions of Mike Flanagan's Netflix drama, Midnight Madness. They both went back to Netflix and took in the remaining three episodes. SPOILER ALRT: We cover the entire series, all seven episodes. They talk about characters and scenes and relate them to their experience as former pastors - miracle, superstition, biblical interpretation, addiction, the afterlife, and the power of cults and cult leaders.
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Carla attended the World Premier of the Jesse Moss documentary "Mayor Pete." It features the presidential campaign of Pete Buttigieg. Carla shares her impressions and the electric Ford Mustang presented to the Secretary as a gift to the government. (For Release on Prime Video in November.) Collin Powell, the powerful military and political figure lost his life to complications around a Covid infection. Ken and Carla pay tribute to this true American. The January 6 Select Committee is doing their work - going after the malodorous Steve Bannon. The Joe Manchin's $700k yacht - Ken and Carla reveal how the Senator managed to purchase "Almost Heaven." Journalist Tim Eagan, a favorite of Carla, wrote a journal of his pilgrimage from Canterbury to Rome. Ken is lost in the reading. Chuck Todd and Meet The Press airs an interview with three "Evangelicals" - the pastor of "Patriot Church," a moderate pastor (both from Tennessee) who laments the "unbuckling of the Bible Belt," and former SBC Ethicist, Russell Moore. Grandmotherhood for Carla is scheduled to arrive in the next six weeks.
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The Two Kens - Asian America the Ken Fong Podcast and The Beached White Male (Ken Kemp) - review an interview by Ken Fong with Claire Chao and her breakout memoir/novel, Remembering Shanghai. It's a living, breathing model of the cost-benefit of "deconstruct." Their conversations turns to a reflection on the popular new Netflix series, Midnight Mass. The characters give more grist to deconstruction conversation. Writer/Director Mike Flanagan, has created a powerful drama that focusses on religion, addiction, miracle, social conflict, philosophy, superstition and much more. It's in the genre of vampire, horror even, which is not either Ken's preference for entertainment, but this one leaves both with much to discuss. SPOILER ALERT - if you have not seen the series, you may not want to listen to this episode until you've seen it. The two Ken's get personal - they weigh cost of changing one's mind about tribal assumptions.
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Ken and Carla have been watching baseball. They have different loyalties - but a love for the game. It's a welcome diversion from the acrimony of the political scene. Mark Galli has created a stir rebuking outspoken evangelicals like Russell Moore and David French who are attempting to counter the assumption that evangelicals are synonymous with the religious right. Russell Moore has launched a podcast with an inaugural episode with his first guest, Beth Moore. Carla has tickets for the release of a new documentary showcasing the presidential campaign of Mayor Pete. Elder Carla (an active elder in her church) ends today's Beach Talk with an account of her engagement with sacred music (hymnology) and sacred spaces.
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Carla welcomes Ken home from his 3,600-mile road trip. They talk about the beauty and wonder still out there in America - the California Coast, the white-capped volcano-shaped peaks of the Pacific Northwest, the deep green forests, and wide desert plains. Then the fall colors - aspen trees in glittering gold and brown and red against a deep blue Utah sky. California's oil spill has spoiled a pristine beach in Huntington Beach and Newport. America has neglected infrastructute investment for too long - even our National Parks suffer from underfunding. Secretary Pete is ready to change that. Carla and Ken reflect on friendship. Carrie Newcomer's song "Refuge" packs a powerful message.
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Osahon Obasuaye is a pastor, a podcaster, and a deep thinker. He's been a businessman and now a dad. He's the son of a college professor in political science and that gives him unusual insight into the current political climate. Osahon has been a co-host with Ken on two Table Talks with the Center for Racial Reconciliation. In this podcast, Osahon shares his concern about an appeal that was recently filed in the case of Dylann Roof, the mass murdered convicted of hate crimes in the attack on twelve worshippers gathered for prayer at the Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston that sparked a nation-wide focus on the issues of race in America.
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SPECIAL EDITION - Ken checks in with Carla from his road trip - 3,500 miles in all - up the West Coast through San Francisco up to the Pacific Northwest and around to Utah's scenic highways. Carla bids an emotional and difficult farewell to her beloved pet, Gracie. Ken shares his experience with Barnabas, his Golden Retriever. Carla catches Ken up on the political scene. Author and former Southern Baptist Robert P. Jones comments on the American evangelical focus on the individual to the neglect of the good of all. They chat about the two big interviews on the podcast with Randall Balmer and Philip Yancey. Secretary Pete sports a thick beard and soon-to-be Grandma Carla gives an update on the pregnancy.
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Philip Yancey's courageous and penetrating new book, his memoir - Where the Light Fell - will be released on October 5. There's a big audience for Philip's story. There are over 100 million claim to have experienced Christian fundamentalism and 25 million more identify as "exvangelicals." Brother Marshall, a musical prodigy, had perfect pitch. Philip's father contracted polio and died when Philip was only 18 months old. Ken notes that Philip's experience in segregationalist fundamentalism is extreme. Paul Van Gorder, Bob Jones, Jr., Lester Maddox all would come to Philip's church. The Prophecy Conferences were an annual event, providing much to fear. Tony Evans came to the church, and was turned away. Philip's mother, a well known Bible teacher, struggled to make ends meet but never quite recovered from her husbands passing. The three Yancey's lived in a mobile home, located in an Atlanta area "trailer park." The Lost Cause narrative permeated church life, but high school opened new perspectives for Philip. He shares bitter-sweet memories of church life. Philip appeared as the Southern preacher Elijah in a high school performance of Inherit the Wind. In Bible College, Philip had a reputation as an intellectual rebel, reading Bertrand Russell and Harvey Cox. Then he met his match, Janet. The parable of the Good Samaritan changed everything. He would later write. What's So Amazing about Grace. George Beverly Shea's song touches Philip.
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Randall Balmer is a scholar, professor, author, documentarian (Emmy nominee), and Episcopalian Priest. Ken and Dr. Balmer talk about his new book, Bad Faith: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right. They discuss notable players in the movement like Senator Mark Hatfield, Harold O.J. Brown, W.A. Criswell, Paul Weyrich, Ralph Reed, and Richard Land. In the right's celebration of Ronald Reagan, the religious right movement did not, as many believe, begin as a pro-Life but rather defending evangelical institutions against the IRS who required compliance with the Civil Rights law. The genesis of the Religious Right had nothing to do with abortion - it was racial segregation. The bridge to understanding the election of Donald Trump is Ronald Raegan - as evangelicals abandoned Jimmy Carter. Ronald Reagan launched his campaign Philadelphia, Mississippi at the Neshoba County Fair, confirming "States Rights." The church basement classic, Thief in the Night. was inspired by Dr. Balmer's pastor father's sermon series on Revelation preached in his home church in Iowa in 1974. It's the story of The Rapture and Larry Norman's popular song "I wish we'd all been ready." College and graduate school introduced Dr Balmer to the life of the mind. They remember Billy Graham's crisis of faith. In 1994, Dr. Balmer's book 1989 Mine Eyes Have Seen the Glory became a PBS Documentary and features Tony Campolo, Dolphus Weary, Fred Price, Bill Hybels, the black church in Mississippi, hispanic pentecostals, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart and many others. Today, Dr. Balmer, in addition to his academic profession, is an Episcopalian priest - he shares the journey that let him to his ordination in the church. Learn More at our SHOW NOTES
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In the 50th Edition of Beach Talk, Ken and Carla talk about the California RECALL - they record just before the results ate in. Gavin Newsome's challenge from Larry Elder, a "Trump Clone" has California in the national news. Ken pays tribute to his friend Jim Adkins. They review their memories of the 1968 Olympic Games in Mexico: Tommy Smith and John Carlos foreshadowed Colin Kaepernick. Vaccination and covid dominate the news cycles. Carla talks about Diana Butler Bass and the tension between LOVE and TRUTH. The White Sox face the Angels and Carla will be there with her coming-soon grand-baby.
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Ken introduces his long-time friend, Dr. Scott McClelland. They talk about awakenings. Scott is a New Testament scholar who has been a professor, a pastor a dean, and now director of the Doctor of Divinity program at South University. After graduating from Wheaton College, Scott was accepted at The University of Edinburgh in Scotland where he pursued and completed his doctoral work. For five years, Scott directed Westmont College's campus in San Francisco's historic Haight-Ashbury District. They review the work of musician Carrie Newcomer and author Brian McLaren. St. Gregory's Episcopal Church triggered another awakening for Dr. Scott. Scott is also a graduate of the Living School founded by Fr. Richard Rohr. In response to evangelical support for Donald Trump, Scott authored the Barmen Today Declaration (over 30,000 signatures to date - read and sign here) which is based on the historic declaration written in 1934 as Adolf Hitler consolidated absolute power in Germany. Ken and Scott discuss the contemplative spirit.
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SPECIAL EDITION - Just a few days ago, my cherished friend, Jim Adkins, after a courageous and hard-fought battle against Covid, left us for the home he lived for to be with the God he loved and the Lord he served so faithfully. This is a trimmed version of Episode 27 recorded in August of 2021, edited so that you can hear him tell his story in his own words. - Ken Kemp, September 11, 2021.
Jim Adkins, Hall of Fame in his high school, community college, and California State University at San Jose, was team-mate to three Olympic Medalists. Lee Evans, Tommie Smith, and John Carlos excelled in the 1968 Mexico City Games. Tommie and John will be forever remembered for their raised fists as the world watched and the national anthem played. Jim tells the story of growing up in Escondido, California, and discovering his extraordinary gift – on to compete with these now-legendary African American world-class athletes, who taught him about race in America. SHOW NOTES
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This week, Ken and Carla talk about the resistance to vaccinations the pressure on Joe Biden to call the nation together to battle the virus. This week, California votes on the recall of Governor Gavin Newsom, Larry Elder is making a full-court Trumpian run at replacing the governor. The new podcast SouthLake tells the story of an upscale Dallas community up in arms packing school board meetings with their complaints about masks, vaccines, and CRT (Critical Race Theory). The memory and legacy of Dallas Cowboy Frank Cornish is on the line. Linda Midgett's documentary film, SAME GOD (the story of Professor Larycia Hawkins) is as relevant today as when it was made. FRONTLINE traces the nation's journey from 9/11 (twenty years ago this week) through to the January 6 insurrection. Jon Meacham's podcast, It Was Said, highlights the Inaugural Address of John F. Kennedy - which Meacham ranks it among the greatest ever. Ken compares it with the Trump inaugural of January 2017 (by Stephen Miller). Secretary Pete? He's sporting a beard! It's public, they have TWO.
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Carla and Ken review the shutdown of American involvement in Afghanistan. Texas has implemented a draconian anti-abortion law that is blatantly unconstitutional. Ken shares a paper he wrote in seminary the year Roe v. Wade decision came down from the Supreme Court. Daniel Darling, a Vice President for the National Religious Broadcasters (NRB) lost his job because he believes that Americans should get their vaccine. Donald Trump gets booed. Jane Goodall, the world's foremost expert on chimpanzees had a telling conversation with Dr. Francis Collins (NIH and Biologos) which prompted Ken to share his latest read: Sapiens, A Brief History of Humankind. It prompts Ken to share a passage from his book, My Creed. Carla catches us up on Secretary Pete and the progress of her journey toward Grand-motherhood.
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Ken Fong has just returned from Alaska and his photo tour. The two Kens discuss the Netflix Film, Pray Away, the story of the rise and fall of Exodus International. Ken Fong has had discussions and interviews with some of the cast members and producers including Alan Chambers and Julies Rogers. They review Ken Kemp's interview with Andy Wells, author of "Tried to be Straight." They discuss the upcoming documentary 1946 that exposes the decisions of the translation committee of the Revised Standard Version of the Bible. Nadia Bolz-Weber has a powerful and insightful interview with Josh Harris who recanted his best-selling book which became must-reading in the purity culture. Ken Fong ends with the challenge to be courageous enough to take risks.
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THE BEST OF - Today we rebroadcast one of our most popular podcasts - Part II, from July 2020 - our conversation with author and professor, Kristin Kobes Du Mez, Ph.D. Her new book, Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation, addresses toxic masculinity, tracing the imposition of rigid hierarchy in the traditional family structure from the earliest days of white evangelicalism. Dr. Du Mez talks about The Nones, Fox News, and conservative talk radio; the emergence of Christian media - from radio to television to publishing to entertainment and merchandising. The LeHayes, Phyllis Schlafly. James Dobson, Mark Driscoll, Promise Keepers, John Piper, The Gospel Coalition and the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, and much more. Ken shares thoughts on evangelicals and gender from The Beached White Male. SEE SHOW NOTES.
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Ken and Carla launch this Beach Talk with the headlines focused on the crisis in Afghanistan. Carla is not happy with the way in which this news is being covered. What's overlooked is the infrastructure plan and the advances in vaccination. We now have a President who tells the truth. Secretary Pete, a veteran of America's time in Afghanistan, has become a dad. The Babymoon and the Push-Present are new developments in child-bearing. Ken reviews Jennifer Hudson's performance as Aretha Franklin in the new bio-pic which according to Ken is a story of deconstruct/reconstruct. RESPECT. Philip Yancey responds to Carla's tribute to Walt Wangerin.
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Ken welcomes Kevin Dixon and Suzie Lind, both pastors at the courageous and innovative JOURNEY CHURCH in Brentwood, Tennessee, just outside of Nashville. Kevin has been a pastor for some thirty years. A graduate, like Ken, of Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Kevin is open about his lament over the state of evangelicalism today and acknowledges his complicity. Suzie, a graduate of Azusa Pacific University, is now an Elder and Teaching Pastor at the church, She shares her own professional and spiritual awakenings. We have wide ranging discussion about Christian nationalism, complimentarianism, race, and the challenges of politically driven mega-churches, rock star pastors and much more. Kevin and Suzie invite folks who share these big questions to engage a community of like-minded people to live out grace-filled lives. Journey Church is also the new pastoral home for the immensely popular podcaster, Mike Erre (Voxology). SHOW NOTES
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Carla celebrates the passing of the infrastructure bill in the Senate with a surprise bi-partisan vote: 69-30. Mitch McConnell voted YES. John Thune voted NO. Tucker Carlson calls it the "Pete Buttigieg Infrastructure Bill." Anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers hit the headlines and create chaos. They remember and reflex smallpox and polio vaccines. The Netflix documentary "Pray Away" tells the story of the Exodus Movement which was shut down by the founders in light of the damage done to the LBGTQ community. The UN Climate Report sounds a troubling alarm that can't be ignored. We lost a wonderful author this week, one of Carla's all-time favorite: Walter Wangerin. As she pays tribute to his life and work, we learn something about the power of literature. Philip Yancey wrote a powerful reflection on his life. Carla gets the first ultrasound images of her grandchild to come.
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Ken welcomes Sarah Dornbos, educator and Christian justice advocate and activist. She’s also the Kids Hope USA director for her church and local elementary school in the Los Angeles Unified School District. Sarah is a Calvin College grad who recently completed her M.A. in Social Justice at Kilns college (with a focus on race/class disparities in public education). She’s also a trained spiritual director, who loves to run and hike, and speak Haitian Creole. Sarah translates for Haitian migrants at the Tijuana border. Her relationships with friends in Haiti, Mexico & LA, fuel her passion for racial justice, and she has been known to get into some "Good Trouble". Ken and Sarah talk about her growing-up years as an "at risk" kid - her academic track and her work, along with Ken, at the Center for Racial Reconciliation. Sarah and her friends have just produced and released a feature-length documentary called Expedition Ayiti which will be featured in the Haiti International Film Festival this month (August 2021). Learn more on our SHOW NOTES page.
NOTE: *All opinions expressed here are Sarah's personal views and do not represent any organization or institution with which she may be affiliated.
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- California Gov. Gavin Newsome is in play. The bi-partisan infrastructure bill got support from Senator John Thune. Ken talks about the 1893 World's Fair in Chicago - and Eric Larson's book, The Devil in the White City in which Chicago out-did Paris and the Eiffel Tower. They did it with a Ferris Wheel. They talk about the CT podcast - The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill - that unravels the effect of toxic masculinity embodied in the charismatic, discredited pastor, Mark Driscoll. Christianity Today makes a statement - it all started with leaders like Billy Graham and Carl F.H. Henry. Soon-to-be Grandma Carla shares the progress toward a welcome arrival.
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In this brief episode, Ken cordially invites you to become a Patron of the Beached White Male Podcast. He reflects on the past year as he produced well over 100 episodes. There have been thousands and thousands of downloads from all over the world - mostly North America. He's eager to get to know you.
Be among the first Patrons. You can see the PATREON PAGE here. He also invites listeners during the months of August and September to book an appointment for a personal conversation. You may SIGN UP HERE.
The Beached White Male Web Site
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The House Committee begins the hearings on the January 6 Insurrection. Former Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo brings the Sunday morning anti-vaxxer, anti-CRT message dismissing the January 6 inquiry as a "witch-hunt" to a California mega-church. They talk about how conservatives spin the hearings, telling people not to watch, diminishing the impact of the inquiry. J.D. Vance, the author of Hillbilly Elegy, is running for the Senate on pro-Trump, voter-suppression platform. Scot McKnight's book, a Church Called Tov. Carla, an Elder in her church, shared his ideas about toxic leadership and avoidance of the truth. Virtual church and rock-star pastors can pre-empt what church ought to be.
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Ken welcomes back Dr. Scott Chesebro. Just last week, Ken and Scott spent two days walking the streets of Hyde Park and the University of Chicago there on the South Side. Scott and Ken we classmates and fast friends, living in the city for three years and a second summer in the late 60s and early 70s. Scott became a sociologist and college professor with the Ph.D. he earned at Notre Dame. For over four decades, Scott was Executive Director of the Chicago Center for Urban Life and Culture, welcoming students from all over the country to the city he loves. They talk about their years at Chicago's famed Moody Bible Institute and the indelible imprint of those formative days. They share their faith journeys which led them in surprising but satisfying ways. Their walk through Hyde Park takes them past the homes of Mohammed Ali, Elijah Mohammed, Louis Farrakhan (friend of Malcolm X), Hugh Hefner (of Playboy, Inc.) and Barack and Michelle Obama. SHOW NOTES include links to Ken's first interview with Scott in which he tells the story of his discovery of slave ownership in his family - and his encounter with descendants whose ancestors just may well have been enslaved by Chesebros.
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Ken makes a visit to Carla's home. They share lunch and conversation about democracy in jeopardy - President Biden's strong speech. The Memory Law brings Carla to a new, hard truth about segregation, equal rights, and wedding gowns. They reflect on Ken's podcast with Ken Fong and the effect of political and religious growth and change on marriage and friendship. The Surfside tragedy brings us to the Secretary Pete (Buttigiege) update and the need for infrastructure. Carla's daughter share lunch and the anticipation of a grandchild's arrival this coming December.
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Ken Fong and Ken Kemp speak of their two different podcast audiences and how each has been impacted by all the talk surrounding Critical Race Theory (CRT). Fong raises the question of how the Beth Moore and Russell Moore departure from the SBC impacted their respective spouses. That leads to an open conversation about their own spouses: Sharon (Snoopy) and Carolyn. It's a very personal exploration of the collateral impact of revisiting one's worldview in the context of social and religious groups with little tolerance for those who challenge tribal assumptions. The two Kens explore the roots, definition, and now the caricature of CRT - the current obsession and target of conservative media. They ponder this question: today, who are the real patriots? Dr. Lucas Kwong connects anti-Asian hate to Christian nationalism.
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In Part II of Ken's interview with Andy Wells, the two talk about the impact of the Nashville Statement and Andy's apologetics professor at Biola University, J.P. Moreland. Andy tells about his experience in leadership at a large evangelical church which led to "conversion" or "reparative therapy," and then his "coming out." The Exodus Movement is shut down. He talks about liberal Christianity, but theologically, he remains a conservative. Andy's new church, St. Gregory's of Nyssa in San Francisco brought renewal, hope and a supportive community. SHOW NOTES
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Ken and Carla compare notes from July 4. New video gives an in-depth perspective on the January 6 Capitol Insurrection. The Scopes "Monkey" Trial of 1925 launched the culture wars. The Congress appoints an investigative committee that includes Liz Cheney as Republicans work to change the subject. Joe Trippi joins the Lincoln Project. Joe Biden and Ron DeSantis show a capacity for non-partisan co-operation in dealing with the tragic collapse of the Surfside high rise condominium. John Pavlovitz, a progressive minister, teaches us to stay vigilant - the pandemic is still a threat. Secretary Pete shows up at the Brad Paisley July 4th concert in Nashville with 350,000 fans. Carla closes with the inspiration of the celebration of the 4th.
BWM #115
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With difficulty, at age 36, Andy Wells came out as gay. He's about to release a book entitled - Tried to be Straight, Biblical Options for Gay Christians. In Part I, Ken follows Andy's journey that took him from Episcopalian to Congregational all in historic Pasadena. He had a profound conversion experience that changed everything. As a new evangelical Christian, Andy shares his faith with Heidi Fleiss, the Hollywood Madam. He encountered questions he could not answer so he enrolled at Simon Greenleaf, then Biola University and completed a M.A. in Apologetics. He talks openly about his growing awareness of his own sexuality but his need to keep the gnawing conflict to himself. In Part II, Andy talks about his experience with reparative therapy, the Exodus Movement, and finally his coming out, and his continued, robust faith - his love for Jesus, the Bible and his new-found community. SHOW NOTES
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Ken and Carla talk about record heat and the implications of climate change. It's Gay Pride Month. Carla fills in detail on Secretary Pete's coming out journey; they share the evolution of their thinking relative to gay rights. The documentary Stonewall traces the legal and emotional history of the LGBT+ movement. A Gallup Poll indicates that 70% of Americans (including a surprising majority of Republicans) believe that same sex marriage should be legal. Ken shares personal experience with friends who lost their lives to aids. Carla relates her revived commitment to prayer as a soon-to-be-grandmother.
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Ken welcomes Rebecca Gummere, award-winning author, advocate, former pastor and blogger. They discuss her recent popular article that appeared in the Huffington Post: "I Found God, Became A Pastor And Then Lost My Faith. Here's What I Believe In Now." Rebecca has been writing since the earliest days. Her academic career (which includes the MFA in Creative Writing at Queens University of Charlotte) sharpened those skills. A call to ministry came after her three children. It was prompted by two significant tragedies, including the tragic loss of her son, Cooper, just weeks after his arrival. She earned a Master of Divinity and her ordination. But after serving as a pastor in several churches, she experienced a serious crisis of faith. This interview takes us on that journey with her, and finally a nearly year-long cross-country pilgrimmage she calls "Chasing Light." At the end of the interview, Rebecca surprises Ken with a powerful story you will not forget. See our SHOW NOTES for more about Rebecca Gummere.
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Ken and Carla reflect on Grandparenthood and Fathers Day. They pick up on the close of the highly covered SBC Convention and unpack some surprise votes - and how CRT (Critical Race Theory) has been targeted and exploited - and the attempts to minimize the sex abuse claims within the denomination. The New York mayoral race highlights tension in many cities across the nation where calls for "defunding the police" face considerable resistance with an increase in crime. Andrew Yang is out of the running. Arkansas' governor's contest pits a highly regarded Chris Jones against Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Carla brings us up to date with Secretary Pete, and the nation celebrates Juneteenth - now a national holiday.
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Soon-to-be-Grandma Carla talks about the impact that newly audible heartbeat. Ken shares his PICK ONE decision and 2022 plan. Val Demings, Michael Garcia and Tim Ryan get honorable mention in the context of the high stakes of the coming mid-term elections. The Southern Baptist Convention wraps up this week with a high profile in the national news - largely representative of the white evangelical influence on public policy. CRT (race) and sexual abuse are on the ballot. Carla comments on the founding of the SBC in 1844-45, quoting long time friend, historian Mark Noll. To our surprise, this week, the SBC conference elected a "moderate," Rev. Ed Litton. A seminary professor challenges Ken to be "disruptive." President Joe Biden visits the Queen at the Windsor Palace and European leaders for the G7 gathering. Carla leaves us with a visit to her "happy place" ... a lovely local garden where she finds restoration and a neighbor who reminds her of the goodness of the American people. Ken recites from Rudyard Kipling.
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Big announcement from Carla! This Beach Talk gets personal. Ken and Carla pull up a chair on the beach to talk about life's wonderful surprises - surprises that motivate us to work toward a better world. They agree - Reveal Parties are risky business. Carla introduces her commitment to the PICK ONE plan - and she shares her picks: Tim Ryan preparing for his Senate race in Ohio. Ryan is known for his powerful reprimand on the house floor of Republican naysayers. Florida's Congresswoman Val Demings, former Police Chief of Orlando also gets high marks from Carla for her 2022 challenge of Marco Rubio. California's Congressman Mike Garcia should be defeated in 2022. Secretary Pete is the subject of a major article in THE ATLANTIC that expounds on his work on the infrastructure plan and his aspiration for the years ahead. Joe Manchin seems to be enjoying the spotlight as a roadblock; Ken and Carla explore the politics of West Virginia that push the Senator toward resolute inaction. They kick around the impact of the filibuster and the absence of bi-partisanship for decades in Washington. They close with a review of the KENNEDY CENTER HONORS: Joan Baez, Dick VanDyke, Debbie Allen (iconic choreographer), Midori (virtuoso violinist), and Garth Brooks.
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Ken welcomes back creator and host of the Straight White American Jesus Podcast, Dr. Bradley Onishi. Brad has been professor of religion at Skidmore College (upstate New York) and was chosen to deliver the commencement address, along with Cornell West. Brad's New York Times article, Trump's New Civil Religion gave Brad a powerful new platform. Ken and Brad cover many topics including Christian Nationalism, the investigations into the January 6 insurrection, Biblical Womanhood, Rick Warren and Saddleback Church, deconstruction, Critical Race Theory and Israel's battle over Benjamin Netanyahu's role as Prime Minister. Best of all, they celebrate Brad's announcement of great personal changes for this year. Big news! SHOW NOTES
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Blake Chastain is back! In this rebroadcast, the creator and host of #Exvangelical, a very popular podcast. It focusses on the stories of people who have been raised in staunch evangelical traditions and then found themselves in a classic “crisis of faith.” Blake created the podcast and then the hashtag - which went viral. It caught the attention of CBS, who produced a documentary entitled “Deconstructing my Religion.” In this podcast, Blake shares his own story and the crisis that led to a period of deconstruction. Blake introduces the new series he has just launched on Christian Nationalism. Blake is the founder of the new association of podcasts called The Irreverent Media Group. SHOW NOTES.
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Carla admits to a dark mood this week and Ken works to cheer her up. Secretary Pete appeared on three Sunday morning network programs. What is our country - a democracy or a republic? Michael Flynn hatched another fantasy about an August coup, reinstating our former President in the near future. Carla connects the dots. NYT The Daily on The Burning of Black Tulsa. A TicToK video takes on Critical Race Theory and gains hundreds of thousands of views. Joe Manchin's home state of West Virginia offers free guns as a reward for vaccines. Teenage girl vs. brown bear in California, and Ken discloses his close encounter with a rattler (PHOTO). Melanie Stansbury wins big in New Mexico. Our talk cheers Carla up.
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Ken and Carla compare notes reflecting on the year since George Floyd was murdered. It's also the 100 Year Anniversary of the Tulsa Race Massacre and time for us all to pay attention to a history that's been covered up. They respond to those who would discount and silence Critical Race Theory. Carla puts in a plug for a worthy project in the UK called Friendless Churches. On the eve of the release of the "God Bless the USA Bible," Zondervan gives in to objections cancels what some have called and American Apocrypha. The Secretary Pete update includes his inspiring visit to a major construction site - The Plane Train in Atlanta. They close with personal reflections on Memorial Day - they talk about their Dads.
Edition #105
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The Two Kens are back and as two former pastors, kick around the notion of "Biblical Authority" that dominates much of the discussion today around gender, hierarchy, racism, LGBTQ+, religious certainty and even Christian nationalism. To start, they talk about Ken Fong's incredible shots of the Milky Way over Joshua Tree National Monument, past midnight. One of Fong's many hobbies is astrophotography. They swap stories from their days as pastors - including pre-marital counseling. Ken Fong shares the moving account of his participation in a tragic memorial service just a few weeks ago in the aftermath of a lamentable suicide. They agree, there are deep spiritual lessons for us all under that night sky.
Asian America: the Ken Fong Podcast
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Ken and Carla are back on the beach. They review Carla's CA visit. Carla is a big fan of the octopus (My Octopus Teacher) and Gold Leaf South Park. Topics today: Trump Organization under criminal investigation; the Supreme Court takes up the Mississippi case on abortion (Carla weighs in); Russell Moore leaves the SBC for Christianity Today; the Billy Graham documentary biography on American Experience (featuring Nancy Gibb, Jemar Tisby, John Huffman, Anthea Butler, Grant Wacker, Leighton Ford and others); founder of Hillsong Church, Brian Houston interviewed re: the departure of Pastor Carl Lentz. President Joe Biden takes a test drive in an electric Ford 150. Secretary Pete leaves us with a sense of confidence and hope for the future.
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Ken welcomes Carla to his home in Southern California. They share some of the highlights of the visit and then move on to the stories of the week including the announcement by President Biden and VP Kamala Harris regarding masks for the vaccinated. They salute Liz Cheney for her strong stand against her party's dogged loyalty to the former president - the unlikely rise of Elise Stafanik. They review Ken's interview with Dr. Kristin Du Mez and her friend Dr. Beth Allison Barr's new book: The Making of Biblical Womanhood. In light of the Mother's Day ordination of three women at SBC Saddleback Church (Pastor Rick Warren), they, along with Beth Moore, have challenged the Southern Baptist Convention. Carla brings an update on Secretary Pete and his "impact on the stock market." Finally, they take a stroll through the rose gardens at the Huntington Library in San Marino.
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Dr. Kristin Kobes Du Mez returns for a new original interview - catching us all up on her experience since her now best-selling book, Jesus and John Wayne was released just ten months ago. The professor of history and gender studies at Calvin University addresses the events that confirmed much of the book's thesis - Black Lives Matter, George Floyd, the Presidential election, drama in the Southern Baptist Convention, the insurrection of January 6, 2021, and much more. She gives us her take on Critical Race Theory and the prevalence of a Neo-Reformed Theology in white evangelicalism. Kristin gives her very personal perspective on the popular Bible teacher and now former Southern Baptist, Beth Moore and author and friend, Dr. Beth Allison Barr, and her new book, The Making of Biblical Womanhood and Jemar Tisby, #leaveloud. SHOW NOTES.
BWM Edition 101
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For Episode #100, Ken welcomes back Co-Founder and President of Culture Connection, Inc., Scott Young. To celebrate, the two focus on finding the sacred in the most unlikely places. They follow Scott's career, from a period of spiritual and intellectual awakenings in his hometown of Escondido, CA. From there, Scott completes college and seminary to become a chaplain on several major university campuses. We talk about influencers like Vernon Grounds (then President of Denver Seminary), Harvey Cox, theologians Barth and Brunner, African American Evangelist, Tom Skinner, social justice advocate, and evangelical Rene Padilla, Urbana conferences in the 1970s, Bill Pannell at Fuller Theological Seminary, The City of Angels Film Festival, Andy Warhol, Martin Sheen, film critic Sister Rose Pacatte and Ralph Winter of X-Men and Fantastic Four fame. Finally, they catch up on Scott's journey since our first interview - remembering his son Josh. SHOW NOTES
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Ken and Carla have some great news - Carla has travel plans. This week, they begin with a reflection on hard personal news that challenges our perspective on, well, everything. Carla took in the American Experience on PBS on the life of the author of The Wonderful World of Oz. In their review of politics, they review President Biden's speech to a joint session of Congress, Liz Cheney's commitment to the truth, Santorum's fumble on American history, and Secretary Pete's progress on a bi-partisan move toward infrastructure. With Mother's Day coming up, they reflect on the memory of both of their Moms.
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Ken welcomes veteran of the film and entertainment distribution business, Dave Mechem. Their careers have run in parallel lines - including some collaboration and lots of mutual encouragement. The two friends walk through those projects: the feature film NOT TODAYabout India's caste system, human trafficking and the plight of the Dalits that has led them both into a serious commitment to racial reconciliation. Other films include Drop Box, Emanuel Nine, Unbroken - Path to Redemption, Same God (the Larycia Hawkins story), Just Mercy (Bryan Stevenson's commitment to those on death row falsely convicted), Harriet (the civil rights icon, Harriet Tubman) and now, Redeeming Love. Dave shares the emotional moment he knew racism is real, and it's time to act. They talk about Journey Church, and their new teaching pastor, Mike Erre.
SHOW NOTES
EDITION #98
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Ken and Carla meet again on the beach for a relaxed, open conversation. On the day of recording, the Feds raided the home and office of Rudy Guliani. Ken shares his experience with Jury Duty this week. Carla loves the movie Nomadland that had a been night at the Oscars - they unpack the movie. Ken shares his recent read, Where the Crawdads Sing. President Biden just completed his first 100 days and addressed the nation before a joint session of congress. Secretary Pete is in the mix. The 2022 midterm elections approach, Carla shares coming attractions and the need for "all hands on deck." She asks Ken about some of his recent interviews, including recovering missionary Dalaina May, then filmmaker and author Craig Detweiler (Purple State of Mind), and finally film industry friend, Dave Mechem - Not Today, Emanuel Nine, Unbroken Path to Redemption, and others. They close with the blessings of being vaccinated.
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Ken welcomes award winning filmmaker, author and cultural commentator, Professor Craig Detweiler. Craig earned the M.F.A. at the University of Southern California’s acclaimed School of Cinema/TV (fellow alums: Steven Spielberg and George Lucas). A professor of cinema at both Pepperdine and Biola Universities, he earned both the M.Div. and Ph.D. at Fuller Theological Seminary. Ken and Craig talk about his most recent project - a feature film about Wally Triplett, the African American football star who broke the color barrier at Penn State and then the NFL. They also explore Craig's journey of faith, from High School through college, and on to Hollywood - and the influence of producer Coleman Luck, of The Equalizer and Gabriel's Fire fame. They focus on Craig's experience with race and his firm commitment to anti-racism. Ken's favorite project is A Purple State of Mind - a feature length film (YouTube trailer and discussion) based on Craig's book of the same name. SHOW NOTES
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This week, Ken and Carla review the run-up to the final verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial and the impact on the nation. Conservatives are already promoting an alternate narrative, led by Tucker Carlson. Russian dissident, Alexei Navalny is barely hanging on to his life. Earth Day brings our planet into focus and the White House is calling together leaders from around the world to celebrate and collaborate. Carla reviews the Oscar nominated film, Nomadland and Ken shares some thoughts on L. Frank Baum, author of the classic novel, The Wonderful Wizard of OZ.
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Dalaina May takes us for a tour of those five years she spent in the jungles of Peru, working with a remote tribal people group with her husband and three young boys. While there, she managed to enroll in a graduate program via satellite. It triggered what she now calls a serious "deconstruct" that transitioned her family to Indonesia. In the exotic island city of Bali, she encountered the hard realities of life in the shadows, brothels of the sex trade where trafficking was commonplace. She joined forces with locals working to rescue, to support and to empower young women. She became the Executive Director of Dark Bali, an NGO designed to address the global pandemic of human trafficking. Her story of courage, conviction, and renewal led her to create a forum for recovering missionaries. SEE LINKS. SHOW NOTES.
BWM Edition #94
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Carla and Ken gather at the beach again, this time they review Charles King's Gods of the Upper Air. They grieve over the loss of rapper DMX, gone too soon. A gutsy pastor, John Pavlovitz has challenged us in ways that bring affirmation and condemnation. Minnesota is their focus this week the Chauvin trial, the death of Daunte Wright, and more. Hate crimes legislation, Matt Gaetz and infrastructure - Sec. Pete v. John Thune on FOX - provide more grist for lively conversation. Carla shares a personal moment you won't forget.
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This week the TWO KENS talk about Purity Culture - a conversation prompted by the Atlanta mass shooting. They explore the shooter's background and the contribution of Ruth Graham and Dr. Bradley Onishi that appeared in the New York Times. They address a key question: if Purity Culture has caused harm, what's the alternative? Ken Fong opens up on a very personal level about his last decade of ministry in which he addressed these issues directly and creatively. He also brings some sensitive and open disclosures you will not want to miss. This conversation will also appear on Asian America the Ken Fong Podcast. You'll also want to hear his conversation with Psychologist Dr. Gordon Nagayama Hall.
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Ken and Carla return to the deck overlooking the harbor and the blue pacific and discuss the massive infrastructure bill in play with Secretary Pete at the helm. Amazon is going to battle with union organizers, raising questions about collective bargaining. March Madness delivered unforgettable basketball moments worth reliving. Professor David Dark emerges as a voice toward reconciliation in these polarizing times. Best of all, they reflect on an Easter Sunday morning that signals the dawning of a new era for us all.
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REPRISE- The Orignal Round Table Discussion on Seeing White from August 28 2021 for April 2, 2021
For five weeks, Ken Kemp facilitated a virtual discussion around the Scene On Radio Podcast series, Seeing White - all 14 episodes. All ten participants were white and represented several generations - white people exploring "whiteness" together. In this episode of the BWM, you'll hear about the TABLE TALKS project from Albert Tate, John Williams, Theon Hill, and a special word from author and activist, Brenda Salter McNeil who has just published a ground-breaking new book: Becoming Brave. You'll also hear from several Table Talk participants - Ron Mahurin, Angela Mia De la Vega, and Scott Young; and at one point, they turn the table and interview Ken. SPECIAL NOTE: Because of the disturbing current events, Ken opens with a very personal statement you won't want to miss. Learn more from our SHOW NOTES.
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Ken and Carla review events in Egypt and the Suez Canal. Kristin Du Mez appeared with Shane Claiborne and spoke to issues of our time. Phyllis Schlafly, Mark Hatfield, Richard Halverson, Secretary Pete are in focus for this week's Beach talk along with Easter Sunday, coming up this week.
Edition 88
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It's been a full year since Ken launched the Beach White Male podcast in March of 2020. In his episode, he reflects on an eventful twelve months. The podcast began just as the pandemic crisis changed the world. From his "man cave," he has interviewed an amazing collection of authors, thinkers, and influencers. He and Carla have brought their open and candid responses to political, religious, and literary events throughout a tumultuous year. Listen to a number of friends and associates express their congratulations.
CONTACT KEN
Posted March 26, 2021
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Ken welcomes Carla back after a week recovering from her second vaccine. Ken just got his - so they swap vaccine stories. It's been a brutal week with two tragic mass shootings - in Atlanta, Georgia and Boulder, Colorado. Ken and Carla talk about the fall-out that surrounds the awful events, including a push for gun control legislation. Several names come up: Ruth Graham of the New York Times, author Scot McKnight, Rachel Denhollander, Joe Manchin, David Hogg, and of course, Secretary Pete. They finish off today's chat with a reflection on a powerful appearance in Chinatown.
Edition 83
Recorded March 24, 2021
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REPRISE: Ken brings back his conversation with New York Times best-selling author, historian, podcaster, and thought leader, Jemar Tisby(see special links below). Jemar shares his background as an African American who became a Christian when he was invited to a primarily white high school youth group. At Notre Dame, as an undergraduate, he was introduced to Reformed theology - his career has taken him to Jerusalem, and then the Deep South as an elementary school teacher with Teach for America. They discuss his powerful book, The Color of Compromise, and how the church's historical complicity with racism - from the early days of slavery until now. They talk about the myth of the Lost Cause, the Reconstruction era, Jim Crow, as well as Black Lives Matter, the tension between the white evangelical church's support for Trumpism, and the battle for justice and equality. Jemar’s passion brings perspective and direction.
GOTO SHOW NOTES for links to Jemar's new book and the two Podcasts
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Ken welcomes Diana Butler Bass, an author, speaker, and independent scholar specializing in American religion and culture. They talk about her new book (to be released March 31, 2021) Freeing Jesus. Diana shares the background that took her from the East Coast to Arizona and Scottsdale Bible Church where she made a commitment to follow Jesus. It took her to Westmont College and Gordon-Conwell Seminary where she began to have deep questions about her faith. They discuss Marcus Borg, Josh McDowell, C.S. Lewis. the Quakers, Augustine vs Pelagius, Calvinism and Dr. Richard Rohr.
See Show Notes for more.
Edition 84
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Ken and Carla explore the relief plan just signed by President Biden this week - The American Rescue Plan. The stock market hits record highs. Jemar Tisby and Beth Moore announce their departure from the church they love. They remember the legacies of Howard Hendricks and Tom Skinner. The now former royals, Harry and Meghan, tell all to Oprah and Ken reminisces about his visit to London the week Diana, Harry's mother (The Queen of Hearts) died. Carla brings us into the new season - the first robin has appeared, singing the song of Spring. Links: Jemar Tisby tells his story.
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The Two Kens come together again to talk about the increase of violence against Asian Americans as the battle against Covid rages. You'll hear from Author Activist Helen Zia and Sharon Kwan, Ken Fong's podcast guest, a licensed clinical therapist whose article on the subject recently went viral. They delve into the Trumpist vitriol, the history of violence against Asians in America, the complications of "ambiguity" about origins and the history of conflict among Asian people groups, the problem of the "perpetual foreigner" and an in-depth look at the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and the Doolittle Raid of 1943.
Recorded: March 9, 2021
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Ken and Carla share "Vaccine Joy" - including Dolly Parton, Sikhs and Alaskan Native Americans all getting the protection that comes from needle to arm. Bethany Christian Services has announced a change in policy regarding adoption eligibility for LGBTQ couples prompting Carla to share thoughts on privilege. Ken shares a story about families who deal with LGBTQ children who were subjected to reparative therapy (the former national organization Exodus) with disastrous results. (Rob and Linda Robertson appear in THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO.) We talk about the obsession with Religious Freedom that's little more than a push for permission to discriminate. Carla gives us her weekly update on Secretary (Mayor) Pete.
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This Table Talk is the conversation that we all want to have but few of us get around to ... it's challenging; fear-inducing; lots of resistance - but richly rewarding. In the longest (and maybe best) BWM podcast, Ken and Osahon welcome six of the table talk participants. They all share the powerful impact of the five weeks we spent together working through the fourteen episodes of SEEING WHITE, a podcast that traces the history of "whiteness" in America. You'll hear from Kahlmus, Megan, Margaret, Zak, Cathy, and Jay with insightful commentary by Osahon. You'll hear much about one in our group named "James." You can find my conversation with James Ross here. Our conclusion: we all experienced what Martin Luther King called, "the Beloved Community." SHOW NOTES
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Ken and Carla meet again on that imaginary deck in Newport Beach - this week to talk about Covid vaccines, the anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theories, and Ron DeSantis' plan to lower Florida flags to half-mast in honor of Rush Limbaugh. The Supreme Court unanimously approved the release of the former President's tax returns to investigators, opening the door for Cyrus Vance to proceed in earnest. The late Apologist Ravi Zacharias, who shares Ken's Alma Mater, made some sad news this week - author Scott McKnight has some things to say about the current state of the evangelical church. Carla brings us up to date on Mayor Pete - and the spotlight turns to Joe Biden's pick for Attorney General, Merrick Garland.
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REPRISE - Bradley Onishi is a Professor of Religion at Skidmore College in New York. His podcast, Straight White American Jesus, prompted Ken to request an interview. We talk about his journey, from Youth Pastor in an influential church in Orange County California during his undergraduate years to graduate studies at Oxford, on to Paris for post-graduate work, and then a Ph.D. from the University of California at Santa Barbara. SEE SHOW NOTES
Original Air Date: March 31, 2020
Reprise: February 24, 2021
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Carla's got a snowstorm outside, so in their imaginations, they return to Newport Beach and the deck overlooking the blue Pacific to catch up on the week's news. McConnell's mixed messages apparently influenced John Thune the week that Rush Limbaugh succumbs to lung cancer. The two reflect on the Limbaugh legacy, Roger Ailes and The Fairness Doctrine. Texas faces climate change unprepared, Ted Cruz takes a vacation - and Carla asserts: ideology has a human consequence. Carla gets us up to speed on Mayor Pete, and then President Joe and Dr. Jill Biden teach us how to celebrate Valentine's Day.
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Ken welcomes James Ross, Educator, Professional Trainer trainer to Public School Administrators and teachers. His specialty: diversity training. James has a long and productive career in the classroom, then as a principal and finally a trainer in Los Angeles and LA County schools. He reflects on his growing up years in South Central LA, then off to UCSB and UCLA and on to credentials for secondary education and administration and his insight as a communicator and instructor in reconciliation. Ken met James through his Table Talks on Seeing White (Scene on Radio) - a five-week online course through the history and impact of whiteness in America. SHOW NOTES
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Live Event - We're Talkin' 2021! Podcasters Brad Onishi (Straight White American Jesus), Ken Fong (Asian America - The Ken Fong Podcast) and Ken Kemp (The Beached White Male) join forces on Wednesday, February 10, 2021. A good group gathered to join is for a conversation about the New Year that brought serious crises: an insurrection, the denial of an election result, a failed presidency, an historic inauguration, and a pandemic in full bloom. They talk about their experience as pastors and podcasters, Christian Nationalism, deconstruction, the Super Bowl, racism and whiteness, Trumpism and conservatism. Live questions from the group added a timely dimension to the conversation. Check out our SHOW NOTES for much more, and a link to view a video recording of the live event.
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Ken and Carla compare weather notes - Carla's 24 inches of snow make the Newport Beach wicker chairs the place to be for open conversation - the impeachment, the strong case that's ignored by Republicans who doodle in the back row as the nation contemplates the horrors of January 6. Ken shares Letter #6 to Senator John Thune. Ken and Carla speculate over continued support for a disgraced former President and lessons learned from the blogger John Pavlovitz, and then thoughts on Ken Hamm and Frank Schaeffer. Finally, the inspiration of John Perkins, now in his 90s, who has for his entire life fought for racial reconciliation.
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Ken and Carla reconvene on their imaginary deck overlooking Newport Harbor and pick up where they left off last week. They banter over vaccine woes and then they turn to the overwhelming confirmation of Mayor Pete as Secretary of Transportation. The Republican party is deeply divided with Liz Cheney on one side and the other, the conspiracy theorist and QAnon devotee, Marjorie Taylor Greene all in the shadow of the Impeachment and the Insurrection of January 6. They give Ken's interview with Brian McLaren a positive review and then close with reflections on the moving moment when USPC Officer Brian Sicknick lay in state in the Capitol Rotunda surrounded by his peers and the President and Mrs. Biden who paid tribute, along with the entire nation, to his ultimate sacrifice in defense of our Government.
Edition 71
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Ken and Carla meet again on the deck of the Newport Beach house. They agree this is a spiritual journey - they talk about what "the Kingdom" is about and the need to take a break from the "outrage factory." Topics include the second impeachment trial, the republican retreat, the insurrection, the flurry of executive orders, and then the bi-partisan support for Carla's friend, Mayor Pete. They close with Carla's take on Ken's new book, My Creed, and thoughts about Holocaust Remembrance Day - the day they recorded, January 27.
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In this episode, Ken welcomes author, speaker, activist, and public theologian, BRIAN McLAREN to the podcast. It's a rich conversation, worthy of two parts. In Part I, Ken and Brian explore the early years that informed Brian's pursuit of books, theology, the Jesus movement, Calvinism, and a pastorate that lasted 24 years. He began as a professor of English literature, but his curiosity about the world and his quest to integrate it with his faith gave birth to a series of books that have had a powerful impact on a wide audience, including the Beached White Male. SHOW NOTES.
BWM Edition #70
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Ken and Carla find their wicker chairs out on the deck overlooking the blue pacific and review the events of the week - there were threats of more violence in all the nation's state capitols; but the guardians were ready. The inauguration found the Capitol Building in Washington DC in stark contrast to the scenes of January 6. ready to hear the swearing-in of a new President and Vice President. They reminisce over the performances of J.Lo, Lady Gaga, Garth Brooks, and Amanda Gorman.
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Ken welcomes back his friend John Williams, the Director of the Center for Racial Reconciliation. Recorded on January 13, after the insurrection and before the inauguration, Ken and John talk about the assault on the Capitol. John's work at the Center has put him in a position to counsel some 200 pastors, most of them white pastors with predominantly white congregations, all of whom are eager to address the issues of race. John is about to launch a new podcast he calls Disruptive Peacemakers. The Center is also launching a second series of Table Talks. Ken will serve as a facilitator for a second time. The podcast was released just after the inauguration ceremonies - Ken pays tribute to 22 year old Young Poet Laureate Amanda Gorman and her poem, The Hill We Climb. SHOW NOTES
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In their second Beach Talk of Season two, Carla and Ken get caught up on the week's developments: the impeachment vote, reflections on the disturbing revelations about the insurrection at the Capitol that have come to light in images, videos, and sound. They talk about Ken's conversation with Mark Galli, and then they talk about Christian nationalism, Josh Hawley, Mike Pence, Kevin McCarthy, Mitch McConnell, Russell Moore, Beth Moore and others, with a shout out to Andy Kim and Arizona Governor, Doug Ducey.
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EPISODE 66 - Ken welcomes retired Chief Editor of Christianity Today (CT), Mark Galli. Mark made headlines in December 2019, just as the House of Representatives voted to impeach the sitting President. In a CT Editorial, Galli and the editorial board called for the removal of Donald Trump by the Senate. As an evangelical coming out against the President, Mark's editorial went viral, hitting headlines all over the world. Ken and Mark go back to his childhood in Northern California, tracking his spiritual, academic, and professional journey. It's an inside look into Mark's story and his perspective on the current national crisis. Ken also reads his 5th open letter to Senator John Thune. SHOW NOTES
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In Beach Talk #16, Ken and Carla find themselves next to a natural gas fire pit on the deck of a decadent house in Newport Beach overlooking the blue Pacific. They review a wonderful/terrible week in the headlines - Presidential conversations with the Georgia Secretary of State, the run-off election that resulted in the Wornach and Ossoff victories, and then the day (Wednesday, January 6, 2021) that will "live in infamy," first on the floor of Congress in joint session to count electoral votes and then the reckless storming of the Capitol building of flag-waving, red hats, toting Bibles in a failed attempt to thwart the will of the people with force. Ken ends the podcast with a reflection on calls for the President to step down - voluntarily or involuntarily - and the role of evangelicals, their scapegoating of Antifa, and their fixation on "the Trump victory," on the day's events.
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In this first episode of 2021, Ken introduces his newly released little book, My Creed, on Amazon. It's a book about authentic belief - and takes on the traditional evangelical statement of faith. Ken reviews Season 1 and the 65 episodes he created during the covid crisis - since the podcast launch in March of 2020. A major question addressed for the year by many of his guests is the strange but undeniable devotion of a large majority of white evangelicals to Donald Trump. He reviews many of the theories and scholarship addressing that vexing question - and shows how his little book addresses the theological issues surrounding this phenomenon. He includes a brief reading from Chapter 2. This podcast was recorded on Tuesday, January 5, 2020, the Georgia run-off day for two U.S. Senate seats. The results were unknown. Ken also gives us a glimpse of what's coming for 2021. SHOW NOTES
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Recorded December 28, 2020, there's a special surprise as the Two Ken's (Ken Kemp and Ken Fong) collaborate on the final podcast of the year. The two podcasters reflect on the depth and meaning some of their favorite interviews in 2020, with special focus on Life Coach Nancy Seng and then the recent Disney+ release: the movie SOUL. They review two of their unique emphases over year - racial reconciliation and LBGTQ rights - and the ways in which their evangelical church has been both complicit and pernicious. Ken Kemp ends this podcast with a benediction For Those Who Have Far to Travel. For details and links, SEE SHOW NOTES.
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REPRISE - In this episode, we revisit a very special edition of the podcast. It is the second most downloaded podcast to date from June of 2020. Ken presents four passionate, timely voices: recent interviews with and challenges from John Williams, Adiana Vega, Osahon Obazuaye, and Albert Tate. Albert, John, and Osahon are African American men who have become sought-after spokespersons in this era of turmoil around the issues of race, justice, protest, and policing. Adiana, a singer-songwriter and activist, was injured by rubber bullets and tear gas in a protest in Hollywood, California. Each tells their story. The Beached White Male affirms that people, now more than ever, are eager to listen - all around issues of Black Lives Matter, privilege, racial unrest, implicit and systemic racism. Don’t miss these powerful, emotional insights straight from the hearts of four remarkable people. Learn more - find our show notes.
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REPRISE: The Most Downloaded of all (60 episodes) Beached White Male Podcast (Originally aired July 7, 2020) Kristin Kobes Du Mez, Ph.D., has just released her new book: Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation. In two episodes, she discusses her meticulously researched book in which she follows the development of white evangelicalism and the emergence of the religious right from the mid-1900s to the present. She concludes that the white evangelical support for Donald Trump is no surprise - he is the fulfillment of the values embraced by the movement for decades. Here in Part I, Ken also shares a letter he wrote to Republican Senator John Thune, challenging him to break the silence of the Republican stronghold, and hold the President to account. ORIGINAL BROADCAST DATE July 7, 2020. Go to PART II Jesus and John Wayne with author Kristin Kobes Du Mez
SHOW NOTES.
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Carla and Ken wrap up their final episode for 2020 - Christmas time by the fire. This time, there is hope in the air - Republicans are coming around to affirm the election results. They talk about the Supreme Court, and new justices who have asserted their independence. Mayor Pete has been selected as a member of Biden's cabinet. The Wall Street Journal opined that Jill Biden drop "Dr." as a title - Carla has an opinion of her own on that count. Then there is Beth Moore, taking on the Southern Baptist Convention. Vaccinations to prevent Covid infections are in play. Ken talks about his recent experience - interviewed by fellow podcaster, Brad Onishi on Straight White American Jesus. Finally, the two reflect on their hopes for the coming year, 2021.
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Angela Lee is a featured and popular Presenter at the Center for Racial Reconciliation where Ken is a Facilitator. Ken and Angela talk about Angela's growing up years and her first awareness of race. Her father is African American and her mother is Puerto Rican. After her graduation from the University of Delaware, she worked as a director and grant writer for the Boys and Girls Clubs in Dallas. That's when her call to ministry brought her to an historically, predominantly white mega-church in Southern California. The election and widely publicized police-related shootings in 2016 prompted a spiritual crisis - that's when she found Fellowship Monrovia - Pastor Albert Tate and John Williams. Angela shared her insights into the biblical quest of seeking justice, repair, healing, and reconciliation. SHOW NOTES
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Ken and Carla connect, this time by the fire instead of the beach. They talk about Advent and Christmas plans in the Year of Covid; then on to politics, religion, and books; Safe Harbor Day, more Metaxas, D'Souza, and vaccinations. In spite of the wrecking ball, democracy stands strong. The President-Elect is inheriting a major mess, but assembling a powerfully competent team. Carla brings an inspirational close.
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Ethicist Dr. Gushee returns to the podcast and continues the discussion of his most recent book, After Evangelicalism, The Path to a New Christianity. We talk about the election, the Biden victory, and the 70 million voters who embrace the Trumpian version of reality. He calls it a moral crisis. Gushee remembers Rachel Held Evans, and gives honorable mention to Blake Chastain and Brad Onishi; we talk about high profile Trumpian evangelicals Paula White, Jerry Falwell, Jr., Robert Jeffress, and Eric Metaxas. Gushee takes issue with Metaxas' version of Bonhoeffer. After a review of the Georgia Senate races, we focus on Gushee's proposal for a new Christian Humanism. With David's permission, Ken reads a passage from David's new book about Martin Luther (the dominionist) and Erasmus (a Christian humanist). SHOW NOTES.
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This time it's egg nog for Ken and hot cider for Carla as the two friends catch up on the post-Thanksgiving news. POTUS, as they meet, remains recalcitrant, denying the election results and crying foul. Eric Metaxas joins in the all-too-popular denial of reality. Carl Berstein outs 21 Senators who have remained silent. They talk about Republicans who have, in contrast to the deniers, stepped up with integrity; and then the collection of certifications confirmed by self-less government workers and volunteers - then those Georgia run-offs that will determine which party will control the US Senate. Finally, they point out that Christmas is coming and Advent is here.
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Ken welcomes fellow podcaster Ken Fong, host of the Asian America Podcast. They launch what will become a periodic series called The Two Kens as they reflect on current events, and a common journey. In this episode, they talk about Ken Fong's artistic skill as a professional photographer; then on to the Presidential transition and the final havoc the current POTUS wreaks on protocol, convention, and his efforts to subvert a smooth transfer of power. We review an article that explores the lamentable way in which one half of America resolutely supports his contrived grievances. Kemp introduces a soon to be released little book, with foreword by Ken Fong, in which he talks about Kemp's former profession.
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In this twelfth episode of Beach Talks, Ken (the Beached White Male) and Carla (The Bleached Blonde Female) find a spot on the bluff overlooking their imaginary coastline, just above the beach. They reflect on this time of turmoil as President-Elect Biden transitions, without the acknowledgment or co-operation of the White House. The country is battling a pandemic and severe economic challenges as we approach the Holiday Season. There seems to be "two Americas" with competing narratives; but we embrace the country we love, filled with good people, "from sea to shining sea."
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Ken has the honor of a long talk with Professor Peter Held, Rachel Held-Evan’s Dad. The world grieved just last year when a shocking, mysterious illness took this author, inspirational speaker, counselor and Mom to two young children. Ken read several of her books - he was/is a fan of her life and work. Dr. Held opens up about his own background and then reflects on Rachel’s growing up years and her start as a thinker and writer. Ken and Pete walk through the abrupt, dark days of her illness and then the tidal of love and support that rolled in from all corners of the globe. Ken reads from the blog he posted just after the news of Rachel's untimely passing. SHOW NOTES
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This week, Ken and Carla rehearse a turbulent week in politics - the Presidential election that has been decided, well, with an asterisk or two. They talk about the consequential Senate race in Georgia, the attempts to derail the train steaming towards inauguration day, the enablers who contribute to the confusion, about the President -Elect, the soon-to-be First Lady and the Vice President-Elect. Ken shares some of his recent reading, and some of the recent polls that confirm the conclusion of the clear majority of Americans. Carla brings her regular update on Mayor Pete. And how about that hole-in-one by John Rohm on his 26th birthday while warming up for the Masters?
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Today, November 7, 2020, Joe Biden became President-Elect as 46th President of the United States. Ken Kemp and Ken Fong, both former pastors, and current podcasters, have much to say as they consider this historic moment, signaling the end of the Trump era and the dawning of a new day for America. This conversation will be aired here and on The Asian America - the Ken Fong Podcast. This is Ken Fong's second appearance on the Beached White Male Podcast, learn more about Ken in our SHOW NOTES.
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Ken welcomes New York Times best-selling author, historian, podcaster, and thought leader, Jemar Tisby. Jemar shares his background as an African American who became a Christian when he was invited to a primarily white high school youth group. At Notre Dame, as an undergraduate, he was introduced to Reformed theology - his career has taken him to Jerusalem, and then the Deep South as an elementary school teacher with Teach for America. They discuss his powerful book, The Color of Compromise, and how the church's historical complicity with racism - from the early days of slavery until now. They talk about the myth of the Lost Cause, the Reconstruction era, Jim Crow, as well as Black Lives Matter, the tension between the white evangelical church's support for Trumpism and the battle for justice and equality. Jemar’s passion brings perspective and direction. SHOW NOTES
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Ken goes solo - sharing his reflections on a week that has the nation riveted, on edge - hopeful, fearful, believing, and disbelieving, all at once.
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Ken's guest this week is Emmy award-winning writer, producer, director, and documentary filmmaker, Linda Midgett. This is her second appearance on the podcast. We talk about her new Facebook Live Series, What's At Stake? Her guests have included Larycia Hawkins, the subject of Linda's award-winning film, SAME GOD, David Gushee, Kristin Kobes Du Mez and the high profile cable television commentator, Kirsten Powers. With the Presidential Election is just a few days away, we discuss what's at stake - and Ken reads a blog post that speaks to that question. SHOW NOTES.
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This week, Ken and Carla chat about the World Champion LA Dodgers and just six days remaining until NOV 4 - a day that will change history. We talk about the Biden efforts to win over the battleground states, the Electoral College, a recap of last week's debate. Ice Cube and LeCrae. We comment on POTUS's announced resignation from Presbyterianism for non-denominationalism and then, The Lincoln Project's podcast on where they talk about that photograph of Joe Biden and his son Beau.
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Ken welcomes Dr. John Lybarger, Counselor, Coach, Therapist, Author , Leader Developer and long time friend. They rediscovered each other through the BWM Podcast. They share their journeys since a very personal connection many years ago. John has worked with major corporations, federal and state government agencies for decades often around the themes of his new book on the Seven Practices Good Leaders Master. John and Ken unpack those themes. Ken gives a reading on Leaving the Tribe. SHOW NOTES
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Ken and Carla catch up on the week’s news. They talk about the challenge of talking to friends and family, chat about the sermons we’re hearing these days. They talk about the proliferation of rallies as Election Day approaches - A.G. William Barr, Hunter Biden, Dr., Faouci, and tax returns. The final debate is scheduled for the following day of their Beach Talk. Carla brings her weekly update on Mayor Pete; and closes with an inspiring story that challenges us all to make certain our vote gets counted.
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Michael Jimenez, Ph.D. was moved by mid-century theologian Karl Barth’s critique of European theology. Mike’s dissertation on Barth helped him integrate the evangelical theology he studied as an undergraduate then graduate student with the broader vision of the Spanish speaking world of his pastor father. Ken and Mike discuss the influence of Barth. Dr. Robert Chao Romero (see BWM podcast), liberation theologian Ignasio Ellacuria, historian Hamid Debashi, the 1986 flim - The Mission, the inimitable James Baldwin and Dr. Jimenez’ recently published book: Remembering Lived Lives: A Historiography from the Underside of Modernity. SHOW NOTES
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In Beach Talk #7, Ken and Carla (the Bleached Blond Female) talk about the President’s positive Covid Test, and super-spreader rallies. Carla gives her take on an election just 20 days away. Including the current astonishing poll indicators of current trends - and how these polls results differ from the 2016 election. She shares her vision of how three powerful thought leaders (John McCain, RBG and John Lewis), recently passed, may be influencing our current trends. And, of course, we hit on the current hearings around the nomination of Supreme Court Justice, Amy Coney Barrett. Ian her Mayor Pete update, she highlights the former Mayor’s impression of VP, Mike Pence. Here’s the full interview with Robert Costa.
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Ed Kale, M.Div., 1963 professional kayaker, was a student at Yale Divinity School in 1961 when a generous professor funded is participation in a Freedom Ride to Jackson, MS. He was arrested, put in jail along with other men and women, black and white. Because the jails were full, he and the others (including the famed William Sloan Coffin), were transferred to the Mississippi State Penitentiary at Parchman. Ken met Ed while kayaking on Lake Superior - and then met at the historic Old Rittenhouse Inn in Bayfield, WI for an interview. They talked about their experience as seminarians, and then Ed's journey which includes his friendship with James Farmer (the civil rights champion who organized the Freedom Rides), Carol Ruth Silver (author and fellow Freedom Rider) and the incomparable author and philosopher James Baldwin. Learn more about Ed Kale in our SHOW NOTES.
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Ken checks in The Bleached Blonde Female, Carla, to talk about Covid at the White House, The Lincoln Project's video, Covita, Michelle Obama's take on empathy, Norman Vincent Peale and The Power of Positive Thinking(?). They review a new, devastating Executive Order that attacks Diversity Training in the Federal Government and the two anticipate the Vice Presidential Debate between Pence vs Harris. Carla comments on Harris' debate coach, Mayor Pete.
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In Part II, Dr. Gushee addresses the influence of (Neo) Reformed Theology on evangelicalism as a movement. He surveys the history that has unfolded for decades but remains resolutely conservative as a political, more than theological force. We talk about Kristin Kobes DuMez’s book and her critique of toxic patriarchalism and we explore Gushee’s path to a new Christianity. It includes a conversation around the Bible, the atonement, and apocalyptic eschatology. We also explore purity culture and Trumpism. Ken reads “Gushee’s Lament.” SHOW NOTES.
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Welcome to Beach Talk #5. Recorded the day after the Presidential “Debate” with Chris Wallace, Ken and Carla weigh in with their reaction. They reflect on the untimely death of the irreplaceable Supreme Court Justice, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the coming election and the Presidential spin - predicting massive “fraud,” sabotaging our confidence in the integrity of the legion of men and women dedicated to fairness. Carla gives us an update on Mayor Pete. Tips on voting.
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Ken welcomes Dr. David Gushee, professor, author, lecturer and distinguished ethicist. While they focus on Gushee’s most recent book (just released), After Evangelicalism: The Path to a New Christianity, they share war stories growing up in the wide world of evangelicalism and Gushee’s academic track - leading up to his earned Ph.D. at Union Seminary. They share a deep concern over the current identification of evangelicalism with Trumpism. They discuss what Ken calls “Gushee’s Lament.” Here in Part I, they review Dr. Gushee’s upbringing, his activism, his influence on the movement, the influence of Ron Sider. SHOW NOTES
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Ken welcomes Piper Dellums, powerful keynote speaker, poet, author, film director, producer, and activist. Their friendship began in a small church in the mountain community of Idyllwild, CA. They share a decade long friendship, their encounters with Ron Kovic (Born on the Fourth of July), the 1619 Project, John Lewis, the cast of MASH including Alan Alda and Loretta Swit. But mainly, they remember Piper’s father, The Honorable Ronald V. Dellums who served 30 years in Congress and then Mayor of Oakland, CA. Piper’s dad was a true champion for the people not only advocating Civil Rights in this country but also battling apartheid in South Africa - actively working to free then imprisoned Nelson Mandela, who became a close personal friend. Ken references the story of Rev. James Reeb. SHOW NOTES
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Ken checks in with Carla for another talk on the beach. We get caught up on the West Coast fires; Carla comments on our interview with Theon Hill, presents some interesting gender polling in this election season, comments on Mayor Pete’s Sunday Morning sermon from Paris this weekend, and share some of the reading we’ve been doing lately. Finally, the Bleached Blonde Female shares a moving story from a woman suffering from the Corona Virus. Ken and Carla chat about the challenge of meaningful conversation across the great political divide.
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In December of 2016, Christianity Today produced a podcast conversation between Editor Mark Galli and Dr. Theon Hill from Wheaton College with the topic: Are White Evangelical Trump Supporters Racist? Ken followed up with correspondence between both Galli and Hill - a robust exchange. It was the start of a treasured friendship for the Beached White Male. In this, the most recent recorded conversation between Ken and Theon, the two discuss the proliferation of protests, the life of an emerging intellectual, mentors like Eddie Glaude, Jr, and Cornell West, and the challenge to have meaningful dialogue in this racially charged moment in American political history. SHOW NOTES
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The Bleached Blonde Female - Carla - and Ken talk about the headlines of the Labor Day weekend - including the heatwave in California, the fires, Zoom calls, “Suckers and Losers,” Carla’s WWII veteran father, the Deep State, Critical Race Theory, Jacob Blake’s mother and the sacred right to vote. Carla’s got some ideas on how to be sure every vote is counted.
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Blake Chastain is the creator and host of #Exvangelical, a very popular podcast that focusses on the stories of people who have been raised in staunch evangelical traditions and then found themselves in a classic “crisis of faith.” Blake created the podcast and then the hashtag - which went viral. It caught the attention of CBS, who produced a documentary entitled “Deconstructing my Religion.” In this podcast Blake shares his own story and the crisis that led to a period of deconstruction. Blake introduces the new series on he has just launched on Christian Nationalism. SHOW NOTES.
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In today's edition of Beach Talk, Ken checks in with Carla, The Bleached Blonde Female, and discusses the headlines including the RNC, Kenosha, Portland, and the heartbreaking departure of Chadwick Boseman. Listen carefully, and you'll hear the breaking of waves as Ken sips his Mai Tai and Carla, her Tart Limeaid. Carla shares a moment of respite under the night sky - it's good advice during these trying times. Don't miss the final "stinger" at the very end.
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For five weeks, Ken Kemp facilitated a virtual discussion around the Scene On Radio Podcast series, Seeing White - all 14 episodes. All ten participants were white and represented several generations - white people exploring "whiteness" together. In this episode of the BWM, you'll hear about the TABLE TALKS project from Albert Tate, John Williams, Theon Hill, and a special word from author and activist, Brenda Salter McNeil who has just published a ground-breaking new book: Becoming Brave. You'll also hear from several Table Talk participants - Ron Mahurin, Angela Mia De la Vega, and Scott Young; and at one point, they turn the table and interview Ken. SPECIAL NOTE: Because of the disturbing current events, Ken opens with a very personal statement you won't want to miss. Learn more from our SHOW NOTES.
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Welcome to a new segment for the Beached White Male Podcast: Beach Talk. Ken and his friend Carla, The Bleached Blonde Female, review the virtual 2020 Democratic Convention. Join us on the beach!
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The Beached White Male introduces Robert Chao Romero: tenured UCLA professor, author, attorney and ordained minister. Our focus is on his new book, The Brown Church. We talk about Robert’s journey from high school in mostly white Hacienda Heights in upscale suburban Southern California to Cal Berkeley Law School to fifteen years as a university professor. Robert’s mother is from China, his father from Mexico. His unique Asian/Latino heritage is the basis of his research and writing and informs our discussion of historic migrations, from China to Mexico to the United States. His encounter with Jesus as a law school student becomes the basis of his exploration of two versions of evangelicalism, one in Latin America and the other in the USA, his interest in liberation theology, and a focus on The Brown Church. SHOW NOTES
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The Beached White Male joins creator Dr. Bradley Onishi in a survey of his original podcast series: The Orange Wave - A History of the Religious Right in the OC Since 1960. Both Ken and Brad have lived a good portion of their lives in Orange County, California, and experienced in-depth engagement with its unique brand of white Evangelicalism. This interview revisits the "making of" the series, and reviews highlighted topics from its inception: the birth of the project through the second-to-last episode - with a preview of the final Episode 8 which explores Eschatology - the End of Days. SHOW NOTES
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Michael MacDonald has a unique perspective on the mood in Portland during these difficult days of protest. Ken introduces Mike as the guy who challenged him to do a podcast... and this year, The Beached White Male is up and running with over 1,500 downloads. Mike talks about the crisis in Portland and the back-story of unique ministries all over the city. He reflects on his long time close Portland friend - Donald Miller, Author of Blue Like Jazz; and the travel and time spent with Bob Goff, best selling author of Love Does. Mike shares his personal story, growing up in Canada in the religion of Bahai; and then off to Turkey where he makes a surprising discovery. SHOW NOTES
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Matula Adams, M.D. left her home in Dallas, Texas, and went back into residency at St. Johns Episcopal Hospital in Queens (New York) late in the fall of 2019 unaware that a global pandemic would strike. She soon found herself in the vortex of the crisis, seeing the first patient with the Coronavirus - and then the wave of cases hit like a tsunami. You’ll hear our conversation from April 1 where Dr. Adams describes her work in the E.R., Intensive Care and Cardiac Care units, and the overwhelming pressures. Then, Ken interviews her for a second time in July of 2020, updating, reminiscing, and reflecting on the severity of the crisis that lives with us today. SEE SHOW NOTES
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This one is for fun... Singer/Songwriter Will Duncan just this week turned 16. He talks to the Beached White Male about his work. He's an accomplished pianist, videographer, gamer and soccer player. He writes original songs, from conception to performance, mixing instruments and vocals in his studio. We talk about his hopes and dreams, and the joy of creation. One more thing - Will is Ken's grandson.
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Kristin Kobes Du Mez, Ph.D., has just released her new book: Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation. In two episodes, she discusses her meticulously researched book in which she follows the development of white evangelicalism and the emergence of the religious right from the mid-1900s to the present. She concludes that the white evangelical support for Donald Trump is no surprise - he is the fulfillment of the values embraced by the movement for decades. Here in Part I, Ken also shares a letter he wrote to Republican Senator John Thune, challenging him to break the silence of the Republican stronghold, and hold the President to account. SHOW NOTES.
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Dr. Belle Barthelmess talks about her commitment to anti-racism. Her journey started in a small, rural town in Maine. After college in Boston and a degree in urban youth work, she became a Residential Addictions Counselor for gang-affiliated adolescent males. Later, after serving a mega-church running a large youth program, she became Dean of Students at the International Training Institute in South Africa. Belle just completed her doctoral work, and along with Ken, is a trained facilitator for the Center for Racial Reconciliation in Monrovia. We follow her journey and gain insight from her considerable insight. Ken also reflects on the anti-racism work of Ibram X. Kendi and Tom Skinner. See SHOW NOTES here.
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In June, 2020, a group of women who call themselves The Power 6 (all Moms) came together on Juneteenth to talk about the meaning of the celebration. Gina Grant, co-founder and CEO of Women that Soar was on the call. Ken got the green light from the group to interview this high-powered African American executive who is also a Mom. They discuss race, justice, Colin Kaepernick, “The Talk” and how friendship can overcome the current Deep Divide. SHOW NOTES: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/gina_grant/
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Ken and Mike talk about the inception and creation of the mythical world of The Sand Sea. Mike has been a reader of historical fiction and fantasy since his earliest memories of childhood. His experience on the football field in the O.C. through an Ivy League degree in history and four years on the gridiron on to law school in Washington DC, all fueled his dream of creating his own Tolkien-type alternate world. Ken and Mike also discuss the disciplines required to turn that dream into a published work, recognizing the influence of Steven Pressfield - author and writer’s coach. This conversation could well have taken place in the home of the Inklings - Oxford Pub, the Eagle and Childs, over a frosty brew. SEE SHOW NOTES https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/mike_mcclellan/
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Part II - Dr. Fong speaks to American exceptionalism and the “racializing" of the Covid-19 pandemic and its social effect on Asian Americans. Ken outlines some of the fascinating history that many of us have missed. The Beached White Male shares a disturbing episode of Us vs Them right in his own home town. SEE SHOW NOTES: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/ken_fong
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Episode 1 - The two Ken’s dive right into Ken Fong's principled change of heart as an Evangelical Pastor - specifically, with respect to the Asian American LGBTQ Community; how it came about, and the consequences of that change - from criticism to new open doors. The Beached White Male shares some thoughts on I-Thou and Us vs. Them. SEE SHOW NOTES: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/ken_fong
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Professor Michal Meulenberg, Ph.D. and Attorney Seema Ali talk about the need for genuine conversation between Christians and Muslims. Michal, a professor at both Fuller Theological Seminary and Biola University is co-founder of People of Peace, Inc. and 2 Faiths, 1 Friendship - both committed to the encouragement of friendship and dialogue. Attorney Seema Ali has been an activist and sits on the Board of Directors for the Center for Interfaith Co-operation. Micah lives in Southern California. Seema resides in Indianapolis, Indiana. SEE SHOWNOTES: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/michal_seema/
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Student Ministries Pastors, Sam Kemp and Osahon Obazuaye talk about their experience with students in this era of pandemic and racial tension in the Spring of 2020. In two parts, we talk about how these two remarkable people chose a career in student ministries; what they are learning from students and parents. We talk about race, purity culture, and the heroes who have inspired Sam and Osahon. RECORDED May 14, 2020 (Before the racial unrest around the death of George Floyd and the ongoing protests.)
See SHOW NOTES: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/kemp_obasuaye/
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Student Ministries Pastors, Sam Kemp and Osahon Obazuaye talk about their experience with students in this era of pandemic and racial tension in the Spring of 2020. In two parts, we talk about how these two remarkable people chose a career in student ministries; what they are learning from students and parents. We talk about race, purity culture, and the heroes who have inspired Sam and Osahon. RECORDED May 14, 2020 (Before the racial unrest around the death of George Floyd and the ongoing protests.)
SHOW NOTES: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/kemp_obasuaye/
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Osahon shares his unique perspective around Black Lives Matter, systemic and implicit racism, the brutal deaths of blacks, including Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, and more. He's an evangelical pastor with a powerful take on the needed but overlooked conversation between white evangelicals and the African American community at large.
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Adiana shares the story of her encounter with police on June 1, 2020 in Hollywood California. She and her boyfriend are both hit by rubber bullets in a cloud of tear gas. This is the complete interview.
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In this special edition, Ken presents four passionate, timely voices: recent interviews with and challenges from John Williams, Adiana Vega, Osahon Obazuaye and Albert Tate. Albert, John, and Osahon are African American men who have become sought-after spokespersons in this era of turmoil around the issues of race, justice, protest, and police abuse. Adiana, a singer-songwriter and activist, was injured by rubber bullets and tear gas in a protest in Hollywood, California. Each tells their story. The Beached White Male affirms that people, now more than ever, are eager to listen - around issues of Black Lives Matter, privilege, racial unrest, implicit and systemic racism. Don’t miss these powerful, emotional insights straight from the hearts of four remarkable people. Learn more - find our show notes here: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/four_voices/
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Ken Kemp, The Beached White Male, welcomes you to the podcast. He explains the genesis of the project and the reasons why you should tune in. Welcome to the discussion of politics and religion - the podcast is open to everyone.
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Ken interviews his long time friend, a classmate from Bible School in Chicago - the late 1960s. Scott tells the story of a shocking discovery - a Ph.D. sociologist learns that his ancestors were slave-owners. His journey takes him to South Carolina, where, in a small country town, he meets Roscoe Cheeseboro, the grandson of an enslaved woman, age 90. They become fast friends. More show notes at https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/scott_chesebro/
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Ken and Scott reminisce over their years studying in Chicago in the late 60s. Ken shares more about his classmate, Melvin Warren. More show notes: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/scott_chesebro/
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Linda Midgett is the director and producer of the documentary film, Same God. She tells us her story - how she was captured by the story of the African American, tenured professor at a major evangelical college who wore a hijab in "embodied solidarity" with Muslim women. She identified with their plight as marginalized by the current political and social climate - and as a consequence, lost her position. More show notes: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/linda_midgett/
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Scott Young shares his journey of heartache, loss, and grief at the loss of his 37-year-old son, Josh. There are two Parts to the Podcast. In Part I, he shares the trauma of discovery. In Part II, Scott talks about the journey of grief. More show notes: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/scott_young/
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Scott Young shares his journey of heartache, loss, and grief at the loss of his 37-year-old son, Josh. There are two Parts to the Podcast. In Part I, he shares the trauma of discovery. In Part II, Scott talks about the journey of grief. More show notes at https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/scott_young/
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Bradley Onishi is a Professor of Religion at Skidmore College in New York. His podcast, Straight White American Jesus, prompted Ken to request an interview. We talk about his journey, from Youth Pastor in an influential church in Orange County California during his undergraduate years to graduate studies at Oxford, on to Paris for post-graduate work and then a Ph.D. from the University of California at Santa Barbara. SEE SHOW NOTES: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/brad_onishi/
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Our guest is Dr. Kutter Callaway, Professor of Theology and Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary. We discuss finding God in film - including his doctoral dissertation inspired by the Pixar movie, UP!. The Beached White Male introduces the theme with a reading of his take on the movie Moana. The conversation also includes his book - The Aesthetics of Atheism, the future of the Church and theological education.
More show notes: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/callaway/
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The Beached White Male interviews the director of the Center for Racial Reconciliation, John Williams, Esq. We just completed our training for Facilitators at the center - the conference was held in Grand Rapids, Michigan. It was let by the team that inspired the curriculum for Workshops I and II, at Fellowship Church in Monrovia, CA. See show notes for more information and links.
SHOW NOTES - at thebeachedwhitemale.com
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The Beached White Male reminisces about his experience in higher education, then discusses the current state of play for higher education, especially Christian higher education in this era of serious challenge.
Recorded April, 2018
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Ken interviews Dr. Theon Hill about Race in America: his journey from his undergraduate years at Bob Jones University to a Doctor of Philosophy from Purdue University. He currently is Professor of Communication at Wheaton College. This episode is the FIRST time Ken Kemp appears as "The Beached White Male." While the sound quality is lacking (thanks to those early days mastering the tech issues), the message is powerful - even prophetic. See SHOW NOTES: https://thebeachedwhitemale.com/theon_hill/
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